Posted on 03/29/2015 5:59:11 AM PDT by RnMomof7
“Why do Fundamentalists and Evangelicals reject the plain, literal interpretation of John 6? For them, Catholic sacraments are out because they imply a spiritual reality—grace—being conveyed by means of matter. This seems to them to be a violation of the divine plan. For many Protestants, matter is not to be used, but overcome or avoided.”
No, Protestants don’t object because of “matter”; we are not manicheanists. We object because this view put grace subject to works, in that in order to obtain grace, you must first do certain works. The Bible tells us that the chronology is the opposite. First you recieve grace, and then your spirit is regenerated, enabling you to do good works.
“Oh, like when He ripped the door off of a house, held it up, and said, “This door is me”?”
So one can’t be speaking figuratively is there is a prop involved?
Oh they do NOT!
They quite plainly do NOT accept verses 28-29 as LITERAL!
(Maybe this is where all the MORMON crickets came from...)
When the thread gets to 500 or so; I’m bailin’!!!
Again, we have the crystal clear words of Jesus of Nazareth:
OK...
No change at all; but another EXAMPLE being shown that shows John 6 in a different light.
Why does Rome want to dismiss other words of Jesus?
...they've got to be taught,
before it's too late.
Before they are six, or seven or eight...
Your butterfly floatin' is pretty good!
But your bee stingin' needs a wee bit more work done on it.
Jesus Christ Himself said, "You vipers!"
ROTFLOL
Sure, everyone has been wrong from Jesus Christ Himself & the Apostles right through the fifteen
hundred or so years up until the wonderful enlightenment of
Self and Self Alone came along.
The next sentence, And the bread, which we break, is it not the partaking of the body of the Lord ?, is just trivia and not noteworthy at all, right? LOL, sorry, the real blood and the real body of Christ are present in the Eucharist.
Christ said it, I believe Jesus Christ, people who insist that the Word made flesh was a fumble nut who couldn't make Himself clearly understood are free to continue making that argument.
Some people have faith in Christ, others follow Eve and place their faith in their Self, that's the bottom line.
The really interesting thing is that it's always Scripture Alone folks who stomp their little feet and yell, "that's what Scripture says, but that's not what it means" whenever something doesn't fit the currently adopted "Christian" lifestyle.
Divorce, serial polygamy, infanticide by "contraception", tattoos, body piercings, cohabitation before marriage, all now one-hundred and eighty degrees from what was taught less than a hundred years ago. Such is the fruit of "Scripture Alone" and "Faith Alone"
Both are but smoke and mirrors from the same serpent who encouraged Eve to rely on her Self.
A baby in its mothers womb lives off the mother's body and is not described as a cannibal. So become a Catholic, you won't be a cannibal. Jesus continues to do miracles.
That's exactly what Catholics do when they hold up the monstrance.
Good Question!!!!!!!
This is even more problematic, because it suggests that the whole Church, "before the various splits," actually accepted what Jesus and St. Paul said about the Eucharist being Jesus' Real Body and Blood, and no church body seriously disputed that for 1500 years. This means the Holy Spirit abandoned the whole "un-split" Church to gross error and left it there for a millennium-and-a-half --- until some Western Europeans finally "got it" that Jesus wasn't serious about that Body and Blood stuff anyhow (yuck).
"Gates of Hell" wins the first 1500 rounds? And you think the Holy Spirit was perhaps asleep?
1 Kings 18:27
And at noon Elijah mocked them, saying, "Cry aloud, for he is a god. Either he is musing, or he is relieving himself, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened."
But I don't think the Holy Spirit is like that. I think the Holy Spirit can be relied upon to "lead us into all truth", to protect His Church, and to endorse the words spoken by Jesus Christ.
Oh, like when He ripped the door off of a house, held it up, and said, “This door is me”?
You prove the point - - was Christ a door? A vine? A cornerstone?
No? Then he DID use figurative language. Just as he did at the Last Supper.
Oh, ye of great misrepresentation.
Hoss
You act first to do works such as Baptism, Confirmation, Receiving the Holy Eucharist, Confession, Marriage and then you receive the graces from God. Since the time of the Council of Trent theologians almost unanimously have taught that the sacraments are the efficient instrumental cause of grace itself.
The Church teaches that there is a difference between actual grace and sanctifying grace. An easy way to understand actual grace is to remember that it enables us to act. It is the strength that God gives us to act according to his will. Sanctifying grace is a state in which God allows us to share in his life and love. When we speak of being in the state of grace, we mean the state of sanctifying grace. There is no mortal sin in us. This grace comes to us first in baptism and then in the other sacraments.
That's not grace. That's merit.
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