[ealgeone]

Would you like to define the identifying "marks" of the True Ekklesia, according to your view? Would you maintain that it would have to have no Sacraments, no Eucharist/Mass/Liturgy, no hierarchical structure, no regard for Sacred Tradition, no reliance upon a chain of Apostolic Succession, and having exclusive reliance on a 66-book "Bible"?

The early church, at least as we see in Acts, did not have much of what the roman catholic church claims today.

In the early church there was:

1) No pope or hierarchy (cardinals, primates, etc) as seen in the rcc today

2) People met in houses, not the buildings we have today

3) No apostolic succession as defined by the rcc.

4) No separation between clergy and laity as seen in the rcc today. All believers had a role to play in the life of the early church.

5) There was baptism, but it was not a means of salvation but rather a confirmation of salvation.

6) Communion/Eucharist was present, but was not a means of salvation, but a remembrance of the sacrifice of Jesus.

7) No worship of Mary or praying to Mary. No praying to departed believers. No statues of Mary, etc. All was focused on Jesus as it should be today.

8) No "sacred" tradition as defined by the rcc. Was there oral teaching? Yes. No one denies that. But it was based on Scripture.

9) Was there a 66 book called the Bible? Not at that point in the life of the early church. Though by 67 AD we did have all of Paul's writings circulating around the early churches. We know copies were being made and circulated. We're talking right after Pentecost so a lot of reliance was on teachings from the OT, and what the Holy Spirit was imparting to the church. See comment on Paul's writings above.

The need for a written word did became a necessity for the church though as the Apostles died off and with the encroachment of false teachings influencing the church.

10) A message of salvation through faith in Jesus and not works. Though there was an expectation that in following Jesus a believer would adhere to His teachings and life.

11) No penance or indulgences

12) No liturgy as defined by the rcc today.

I could keep going on, but you get the idea.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question in detail. It's approximately what I thought you would say. (See? I know you, dear CynicalBear!)

Now for the second part of the question:

Can you substantiate that any "ekklesia" in the first Millennium A.D. met these criteria? Anywhere? In what is now Israel, Jordan, Syria, Turkey, Greece, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Egypt, Algeria, Iraq, the Balkans, Italy, France, Spain, the British Isles, Bulgaria, Romania, the Ukraine, or anyplace else?

A name, a time, a place, a text --- historic evidence --- is what I'm looking for.