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To: Star Traveler
Jerusalem was not a "church group," but a church; part of the holy catholic apostolic church, and designated by location. By pointing me to S. Michael Houdmann, a graduate of a very small college and seminary where 31% or so are distance learners. All of our answers are reviewed for biblical and theological accuracy by our staff, with final approval given by our President and Founder, S. Michael Houdmann. He possesses a Bachelor's degree in Biblical Studies from Calvary Bible College and a Master's degree in Christian Theology from Calvary Theological Seminary (Kansas City, MO).

He started an Internet website and is its "President" which suggests to me it is a business. You have effectively ceded the argument, as Michael describes his group as " We are Christian, Protestant, conservative, evangelical, fundamental, and non-denominational. We view ourselves as a para-church ministry, coming alongside the church ...

I am not perfect. I make mistakes. I do not have all the answers. If you were to combine the minds of all 250+ of the GotQuestions.org question answering team, we would still not have all the answers. I fully expect to be “judged more strictly” (James 3:1) at the Judgment Seat of Christ. There are surely some theological/biblical issues on which I do not have a correct or complete understanding. And for that, I humbly ask for, and receive, God’s forgiveness.

114 posted on 04/08/2015 7:34:56 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: af_vet_1981

When people refer to a “church” usually they are referring to either a “building” or an “organization” or the entire group of “those who are saved” by their faith in Jesus, the Messiah of Israel, as their personal Savior.

I use the term alternately, too ... many times referring to an “organization”, other times referring to a particular “building” and then at other times referring to the “saved ones” who are in Jesus, the Promised One.

When one “goes to a church” ... they are going to a BUILDING many times, and then they may be following the doctrines of an “organization” ... and SOME of those who are in that building, which was purchased by an organization ARE THE SAVED ONES (and those saved ones are part of the “ECCLESIA”).

I ... PERSONALLY ... am of the ECCLESIA ... the called-out and saved ones, having their salvation in their Savior, Jesus, the Messiah of Israel.

I do go to a BUILDING, but that building is not defining for me, according to the Bible. And that building was purchased or built by an “organization” (with their accompanying rules and bylaws and also referencing the Bible as being their basis for existing) ... but that ORGANIZATION is not defining for me.

The ECCLESIA is defining for me, per the Bible, as as the Salvation provided by Jesus, the Messiah of Israel, as my personal Savior (and no “building” and no “organization”).

You might find this enlightening ... :-) ...

— — —

‘Church’ is not in New Testament!
http://messiahsmandate.org/the-truth-behind-the-word-church/

Did you know that the King James Version was not the first English translation of the Bible? The Tyndale Bible was translated in 1526 and the Wycliff bible predates that. What is interesting is that Tyndale never translated the Greek word ecclesia as church, but congregation (congregacion). He does use the word church twice, but only in reference to pagan Temples (see Acts 14:13, 19:37). Ecclesia is not used in either of these verses. So, according to Tyndale, a congregation was People who are Holy and churches were Buildings for Religious Purposes, including pagan temples.

Churches are Buildings

The Greek word for church is kyriakos and appears in the New Testament only once (1 Cor. 11:20). It is the first part of the phrase The Lord’s Supper. It is an adjective (not a noun) meaning “belonging to the Lord.” Sometime in the 300s people began to refer to buildings where believers met as kyriakos or churches (About the time that the anti-Semitic Roman Emperor Constantine began building structures for Christians). And then, the body of believers themselves started to be called ‘the church’. Of course, in popular vernacular, most of the world associates churches with buildings.

The fact that church (kyiakos) does not appear in the New Testament (in connection with the body of believers) must be the reason Tyndale refused to use it. Young’s Literal Translation (1862) correctly translates ecclesia as assembly, not church. However, when King James aurthorized a new translation (1611) one of the rules was that the ecclesia would not be translated congregation, but church. Why? Maybe because they wanted to be consistant with common practice or maybe it was more sinister—was congregation too Jewish? Let’s remember they also translated Yeshua’s brother Jacob as James. Then again, Tyndale also translated Jacob as James (Iames).

Ecclesia (the word that is translated church in your Bible) is not a religious word. In Acts 19 it refers to a town council. In verses 32, 39 and 41 the KJV correctly translates the word as assembly, referring to the meeting of the council. However, the more than 100 other times that ecclesia appears in the New Testament, translators simply changed the word to kyriakos or church. In the same way that believers were part of The Way. Way, though a general word, becomes a specific word—a proper noun.

Ecclesia simply means “those called to a regular gathering.” For years believers have said it means “Called out ones” — as in, called out from the world. While I like that, in truth, it means called out to gather for any purpose, as in Acts 19. Is it possible that the New Testament seeks to elevate the meaning of ecclesia, adding a spiritual definition? Sure, in the same way a house can be white without being the White House, but still, the word church is nowhere in the texts.

Kehila—Community

The Hebrew Word used for ecclesia in my Hebrew NT is kehila, or Community/Congregation. This, in my opinion, is a much better word, because the community is people no matter where they meet. The New Testament congregation is a spiritual house made of people, as Simon Peter says, “you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house” (2 Pet. 2:5). In addition, as pointed out by one of my readers, the Old Testament book that we call Ecclesiastes (from ecclesia) in Hebrew is Kohelet. Kohelet comes from the word kehila or kahal (gathering; audience).

Community is also a more Jewish friendly term. Most Jewish people would not step foot in a church, but they might come to your community or gathering (especially if the meeting is in a non-religious building, like a home).

I am not maintaining that there was a conspiracy (although, there may have), but rather that because ecclesia was not a religious word and the new word church did have a religious connotation, it became the dominant word. However, I think that the word ecclesia (assembly) is a perfect word because at the end of the day, the body of believers in a living community of people, not a building, and that is the word in the New Testament, not church.

Is this really a big deal?

As long as we know to whom we are referring, the people of God, then maybe not. But the confusion that remains today over whether church is a building or a group of people stems from the fact kyriakos are buildings, not gatherings, while the ecclesia are people. In addition, because the construction of historic church buildings (that the New Testament never encourages us to build) are so closely connected with Christian animosity towards Jews, the less charged word—community, may be preferable.*


115 posted on 04/08/2015 8:02:17 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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