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To: Zionist Conspirator
I did respond in this thread. The accusation was that Vatican II changed the teachings. As much as VII did change things, Adam and Eve was not one of them. Having said that, when various Catholics (including members of the hierarchy) lead others to believe something that is not traditional Catholic teaching that's another story altogether.

As far as getting into a debate about the literal truth of Adam and Eve and whether it is important to me? I find a number of things important to me, but I also recognize that there is just so much one can say. Case in point: the ongoing "debate" with Protestants about the Eucharist and whether it is literal. I don't argue with them about that anymore because it's pretty clear their minds are closed. That doesn't mean it isn't important to me.

80 posted on 04/23/2015 8:35:00 AM PDT by piusv
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To: piusv
As far as getting into a debate about the literal truth of Adam and Eve and whether it is important to me? I find a number of things important to me, but I also recognize that there is just so much one can say. Case in point: the ongoing "debate" with Protestants about the Eucharist and whether it is literal. I don't argue with them about that anymore because it's pretty clear their minds are closed. That doesn't mean it isn't important to me.

Yes, I agree that ultimately Fundamentalists are hypocrites when they reject the literal interpretation of John 6 literally. When I converted to Catholicism, one reason I did so was because it taught John 6 literally, and I'll take as much of the supernatural as I can get. My policy is: I like my religion with a lot of zapping in it. It's possible that had it not been for Catholic liberalism on every other issue I would be a member of the Catholic Church to this day.

Fundamentalist Protestants, in order to remain Protestants, are forced to reject the literal interpretation of John 6 for two very simple reasons:

1)It implies that "salvation" is a lifelong process in which one grows and in which one must be fed. Since Fundamentalist Protestantism believes in an instantaneous permanent salvation on the basis of a vicariously damned "divine" scapegoat, they can have no room for process in their soteriology.

2)In order to accept the "miracle of the mass," one would have to accept the authenticity of the succession of those possessing these powers. This of necessity drags in acceptance of the Catholic/Orthodox priesthood, and with them comes the whole of Catholic/Orthodox theology.

You can see here why Fundamentalist Protestant theology could not survive the acceptance of the literal interpretation of John 6. I like to think that if they could find a way to neutralize the two above issues, Fundamentalist Protestants would interpret John 6 as literally as they do everything else.

Now let me ask you this: what is the Catholic excuse for rejecting Genesis and (in fact) the vast majority of the entire Hebrew Bible? What in Genesis overturns Catholic theology or soteriology? What in it automatically requires a Protestant worldview? Admit it: there isn't anything. Catholics/Orthodox are without excuse for their antipathy to Genesis. There is one and only one logical explanation: an antipathy to the people with whom a literal interpretation of Genesis is associated; ie, a hatred of simple rural American people. These same people idealize the illiterate peasants of the Middle Ages and of today, but they have no room in their heart for the simple American yeoman farmer. This antipathy disgusts me. It is hateful. It drove me from the Catholic Church (granted, ultimately doing me a favor). But this hypocrisy, to accept every supernatural claim outside the Hebrew Bible and to celebrate every people on earth except for the American "redneck"--this is all to similar to liberalism. And some very hateful remarks about simple Americans have been made by Catholic FReepers over the years (Billy Bob's Glory Barn, snake-handlers, brain-dead bibliolators, etc.).

You need to understand something. Catholic FReepers can post all they want about how flawed Protestant ecclesiology or knowledge of church history is. They may justify every Catholic practice that Protestants object to. But so long as Catholics insist that Genesis is "didactic mythology" no Fundamentalist Protestant will ever join or have any other feeling towards it than emnity. There is about the denial of Genesis the smell of sulfur. And there is simply no reason for Catholic or Orthodox chrstians to oppose it the way they do. It is a groundless prejudice . . . nothing more, nothing less.

And regardless of the fact that Genesis might be important to a few traditionalist Catholics here and there, it is not high on the list of concerns and is almost never brought up in traditionalist attacks on liberal Catholicism.

I don't know what more I can say.

95 posted on 04/23/2015 3:12:27 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The "end of history" will be Worldwide Judaic Theocracy.)
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