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To: paladinan; Iscool; metmom
(*sigh*) Not if you don't count the billions of people throughout the ages and throughout the world who have been reborn that way, I guess...

No they were not "born again" in baptism ...but they did get a good shampoo

As you know this scripture has been bandied about for generations.. But seeing the thief on the cross was saved..as were all the saints of the OT without being baptized ...I think we an rule out the fallible RC interpretation

I present one that seems to present an interesting view of the scripture ...

Bengel's Gnomen John 3:5. Ἐξ ὕδατος καὶ Πνεύματος, of water and the Spirit) Jesus renders His speech the more difficult, in order to try [discipline] Nicodemus, and at the same time declares the difference between birth from above, and birth from a mother: and He defines birth from above by communion with [the partaking of] Himself and with [of] the Spirit (for He speaks concerning Himself and concerning the Spirit also at John 3:11, “we speak that we do know”). Comp. 1 Corinthians 6:11, “Ye are washed, ye are sanctified, ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.” No one can enjoy God without the Son and His Spirit. Water denotes the baptism of John into [preparing for] Christ Jesus, John 3:22-23 [Jesus tarried in the land of Judæa with His disciples, and baptized: “John was also baptizing in Ænon,” etc.]; which baptism the colleagues of Nicodemus, by omitting, John 3:1, despised the counsel of God: Luke 7:30, “The Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of John;” when nevertheless the Jews were accustomed to baptisms: Hebrews 9:10, “divers washings.” And Nicodemus himself appears to have entertained not sufficiently exalted views of John and his baptism, as being one who had wrought no miracle. Comp. John 3:2 [where he emphasises the ‘miracles’ of Jesus; thus forming a contrast to John]. Nor is communion needful with Christ only, but also with His Spirit: Acts 2:38, “Repent and be baptized—in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” And because the same Spirit glorifies Christ, for this reason, the mention of water being presently after omitted, mention is made of the Spirit alone, of whom we are to be born again: nor does He say at John 3:6, that which is born of water is water. Therefore the necessity of regeneration primarily, and of baptism secondarily, is here confirmed (comp. a similar καί, and, ch. John 6:40, every one which seeth the Son and believeth on Him): otherwise there would be but little hope of infants dying without baptism. Comp. as to water and the Spirit, Titus 3:5, “Not by works which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.”—εἰσελθεῖν, enter) Answering to the word enter [a second time into his mother’s womb] of the previous verse. The severity of His expression increases: comp. see, John 3:3. He cannot even enter, much less see. He must enter a house, whoever wishes to see thoroughly its internal structure. That which is not born, uses neither eyes nor feet.

1,062 posted on 05/04/2015 2:11:16 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
No they were not "born again" in baptism ...but they did get a good shampoo

:) ...and this is settled decisively by the infallible decree of RnMomof7! Gotcha.

By the way... no shampoo during Baptism. It may invalidate the Sacrament (which requires plain water). Stings the eyes of the babies, too.
1,064 posted on 05/04/2015 2:24:05 PM PDT by paladinan (Rule #1: There is a God. Rule #2: It isn't you.)
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To: RnMomof7
As you know this scripture has been bandied about for generations.. But seeing the thief on the cross was saved..as were all the saints of the OT without being baptized ...I think we an rule out the fallible RC interpretation

One simple question for you, RnMomof7. Just one.

Do you know ANYTHING about the Catholic Church, whatsoever?

You talk a great deal about Her, but you really don't offer anything which a 7-year-old Catholic couldn't spot as nonsense. Read the Catechism. Don't settle for anti-Catholic cliff notes.
1,065 posted on 05/04/2015 2:26:59 PM PDT by paladinan (Rule #1: There is a God. Rule #2: It isn't you.)
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