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To: paladinan; CynicalBear

Nope no priests in the NT Pal...

The MODERN DICTIONARIES have adapted Rome’s definition.. but to really know you have to look at what THE HOLY SPIRIT said in Greek..

You NEED A GREEK DICTIONARY

The greek word for elder is different than the greek words for priest.. archiereus which translates into “High Priest” and hiereus which translates one that OFFERS SACRIFICES.

The role of the priesthood in scripture was to offer sacrifices.. That is what a priest does in scripture.. God set aside one tribe to be priests, they were not granted any land as God was their inheritance .

The greek have a couple words for priest

hiereus

1) a priest, one who offers sacrifices and in general in busied with sacred rites
a) referring to priests of Gentiles or the Jews,
2) metaph. of Christians, because, purified by the blood of Christ and brought into close intercourse with God, they devote their life to him alone and to Christ

and archiereus

Outline of Biblical Usage
1) chief priest, high priest
2) the high priests, these comprise in addition to one holding the high priestly office, both those who had previously discharged it and although disposed, continued to have great power in the State, as well as the members of the families from which high priest were created, provided that they had much influence in public affairs.
3) Used of Christ because by undergoing a bloody death he offered himself as an expiatory sacrifice to God, and has entered into the heavenly sanctuary where he continually intercedes on our behalf.

Neither role is given in scripture for the new church ..

Christ fulfilled the role of Priest on the cross.. there is no more sacrifice for sin

He is now our High Priest..

The word for elder is presbyteros here is the GREEK definition
1) elder, of age,
a) the elder of two people
b) advanced in life, an elder, a senior
1) forefathers
2) a term of rank or office
a) among the Jews
1) members of the great council or Sanhedrin (because in early times the rulers of the people, judges, etc., were selected from elderly men)
2) of those who in separate cities managed public affairs and administered justice
b) among the Christians, those who presided over the assemblies (or churches) The NT uses the term bishop, elders, and presbyters interchangeably
c) the twenty four members of the heavenly Sanhedrin or court seated on thrones around the throne of God

Now the Holy Spirit knows the difference in the greek words.. there is no priesthood provided for in the NT church.

There was no priests in the new church.it was about 300 AD before the first priesthood appeared..

Greg Dues has written Catholic Customs & Traditions, a popular guide (New London: Twenty Third Publications, 2007). On page 166 he states,
“Priesthood as we know it in the Catholic church was unheard of during the first generation of Christianity, because at that time priesthood was still associated with animal sacrifices in both the Jewish and pagan religions.”

“A clearly defined local leadership in the form of elders, or presbyteroi, became still more important when the original apostles and disciples of Jesus died. The chief elder in each community was often called the episkopos (Greek, ‘overseer’). In English this came to be translated as ‘bishop’ (Latin, episcopus). Ordinarily he presided over the community’s Eucharistic assembly.”

“When the Eucharist came to be regarded as a sacrifice, the role of the bishop took on a priestly dimension. By the third century bishops were considered priests. Presbyters or elders sometimes substituted for the bishop at the Eucharist. By the end of the third century people all over were using the title ‘priest’ (hierus in Greek and sacerdos in Latin) for whoever presided at the Eucharist.”


1,253 posted on 05/07/2015 8:42:43 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7; St_Thomas_Aquinas
Nope no priests in the NT Pal... The MODERN DICTIONARIES have adapted Rome’s definition.. but to really know you have to look at what THE HOLY SPIRIT said in Greek..

:) Oh, my word...

So... am I to believe that the Holy Spirit inspired a particular Greek dictionary? I'm apparently also supposed to believe that modern dictionary companies have been taken over and/or brainwashed by Catholics (I think back fondly of that staunch Papist, Noah Webster! *dreamy sigh*)... and that they're willing to subjugate "true meaning" of words for the sake of promoting a "Romish" agenda. I'm... quite speechless. (I'm trying very hard not to laugh, honest. :) )

You NEED A GREEK DICTIONARY

(*activating bullhorn*)

I HAVE A GREEK DICTIONARY. THANK YOU!

:)

I'm really not sure why this is so much fun... but this particular exchange is really tickling my funny bone... :)

The greek word for elder is different than the greek words for priest..

Correction: the word for "old Covenant priest" (hiereus) is different from the word for "new Covenant priest" (presbyteros), and the word for "new Testament priest" is the same as the word for "elder/presider". This really has been true for quite a number of centuries.

The role of the priesthood in scripture was to offer sacrifices.. That is what a priest does in scripture..

Of course.

The greek have a couple words for priest

At least three, actually.

Neither role is given in scripture for the new church.

...and again, you insist on the unbiblical idea of "sola Scriptura", and you abstract completely from all of Church history from Apostolic times, until today. I'm not sure why, aside from probable polemical reasons (e.g. "anything but Rome!!").

Christ fulfilled the role of Priest on the cross.. there is no more sacrifice for sin

Right... just as the Catholic and Orthodox Churches have taught for hundreds of years before Luther was born.

Now the Holy Spirit knows the difference in the greek words..

I'm quite sure He does. He also knows Church history, as well. :)

there is no priesthood provided for in the NT church.

Nonsense. Scripture records the ordinations of bishops, priests, and deacons, by the laying on of hands by one of the Apostles and/or their successors/delegates. This has been true for 2000 years... and Protestant redaction of history will not alter that fact.

I will say this much: in the earliest days of the Church, the number of priests (i.e. ordained delegates of the bishops) was relatively small, since the congregations were usually small enough to be handled by the bishop, directly. Nowadays, when--for example--New York City has a Catholic population of almost 3,000,000, it's not feasible for one bishop to minister to the needs of so many, and numerous priests are needed.

Greg Dues has written Catholic Customs & Traditions, a popular guide (New London: Twenty Third Publications, 2007).

(*wry look*) How novel and authoritative!

Do me a favor: on the page with the copyright, does the book have an "imprimatur" and a "nihil obstat"? Granted, an imprimatur and/or a "nihil obstat" is only as good as the bishop who issues it... but the type of author who neglects to get one (and all books dealing with Catholic theology are required to have these, by Canon Law) can safely be written off as not being reliable.

On page 166 he states, “Priesthood as we know it in the Catholic church was unheard of during the first generation of Christianity, because at that time priesthood was still associated with animal sacrifices in both the Jewish and pagan religions.”

Given that the Catechism flatly contradicts him, (see especially the bit about "...entrusted by Christ...") I'll go with the Catholic Church, on this one. That seems to be a difficulty that some Protestants have with understanding the Church: they're so used to "winging it on their own" and "following one pastor or another, based only on personal opinion and taste, with no way to settle 'who's right and who's wrong' in any disagreement", that they have a hard time wrapping their brains around the idea of "checking with the highest authority". Believe me, there are plenty of lay people (and priests, and even bishops) who write books/articles, etc., which claim to be "Catholic", but which are nuttier than Nutella (and not nearly so good for you); thank God, there's an authority against which we can use to check the claims of this-or-that "author".

[other non-authoritative opinions from Mr. Dues deleted for space]

1,271 posted on 05/07/2015 1:28:35 PM PDT by paladinan (Rule #1: There is a God. Rule #2: It isn't you.)
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To: RnMomof7

Heh heh heh

Even them Mormons is smart enough to have elders!


1,334 posted on 05/08/2015 4:10:49 AM PDT by Elsie
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