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To: ealgeone
A simple question....

All right.

what if someone is in a car wreck and they are dying. A Christian witnesses to this person much as Peter, Philip or Paul did and this person believes in Jesus as a Christian does. They die without benefit of baptism, good works, etc.

Are we presuming that they freely chose to have faith in Jesus Christ, as a result of that witness?

Are they counted as a believer or just some poor dude who is not a believer because he didn't get baptized?

Ultimately, that question is up to God; I wouldn't know, without reading the person's heart. But as to what I think is your question: yes, it's possible for one to be saved if water baptism is an impossibility. Check out the Catechism, #1258-1261, for details about "Baptism of Desire" and "Baptism of Blood", in cases where the normal method of Baptism is not available (through no fault of the recipient).
1,260 posted on 05/07/2015 10:35:41 AM PDT by paladinan (Rule #1: There is a God. Rule #2: It isn't you.)
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To: paladinan
>>Are they counted as a believer or just some poor dude who is not a believer because he didn't get baptized? <<

Ultimately, that question is up to God; I wouldn't know, without reading the person's heart. But as to what I think is your question: yes, it's possible for one to be saved if water baptism is an impossibility. Check out the Catechism, #1258-1261, for details about "Baptism of Desire" and "Baptism of Blood", in cases where the normal method of Baptism is not available (through no fault of the recipient).

Baptism of desire and blood are made up catholic doctrines not supported anywhere in Scripture.

From the ccc.....1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

So yes, it is possible for someone to be saved without benefit of baptism in the scenario I outlined.

Hence the act of baptism is not what saves you. The faith/belief in Christ is what saves you. Then, in obedience to His command, we get baptized when possible.

Also the ccc, at least in this one instance, confirms what the Bible has taught in that you can know for sure if you are saved.....and that is through belief in Christ.

It's why John penned John 20:31 and 1 John 5:13....to give us confirmation that if we believe in Christ, we have eternal life.

1,262 posted on 05/07/2015 10:49:34 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: paladinan; ealgeone

Then baptism isn’t necessary for salvation.

If you can make an exception for it, then it’s really unnecessary.


1,270 posted on 05/07/2015 1:22:08 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: paladinan; ealgeone
Ultimately, that question is up to God; I wouldn't know, without reading the person's heart. But as to what I think is your question: yes, it's possible for one to be saved if water baptism is an impossibility. Check out the Catechism, #1258-1261, for details about "Baptism of Desire" and "Baptism of Blood", in cases where the normal method of Baptism is not available (through no fault of the recipient).

Just point us to the scripture that teaches any such thing??? That is just more cover my butt theology from Rome..

1,274 posted on 05/07/2015 1:54:40 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: paladinan
Ultimately, that question is up to God; I wouldn't know, without reading the person's heart.

Would you 'know' by reading the Book?

1,335 posted on 05/08/2015 4:12:20 AM PDT by Elsie
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