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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas; RnMomof7
...Actually Rome has massively misread the scriptures, cherry picked passages from the church fathers and developed a false historical narrative.. -mom

What authority do you have to make this claim? -wishes to be a saint, but doesn't have the right credentials, so becomes a usurper, like Roman Catholicism, in general!!

What authority do you have to make DENY this claim?

The Roman cult denies lay members using apologetics...

She's dead, tom!

1,384 posted on 05/08/2015 5:39:19 PM PDT by WVKayaker (Impeachment is the Constitution's answer for a derelict, incompetent president! -Sarah Palin 7/26/14)
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To: WVKayaker; RnMomof7; paladinan
What authority do you have to make DENY this claim?

So you admit that Rnmomof7 has no greater authority than anyone else to interpret Scripture? She has already admitted this herself.

And you both assert that the Catholic Church has no binding teaching authority.

You may not be aware of the following arguments regarding the binding teaching authority of the Church. Many anti-Catholics simply pass over these facts.

"If he will not listen to the church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector." --Jesus
How do you interpret this passage?

Does this mean that Christ's Church has no disciplinary authority?

Or does you mean that Christ's Church has no doctrinal authority?

St. Paul calls the church, "the pillar and foundation of truth."

On the level of simple logic, Christ's act of establishing a Church, lacking the authority to teach doctrine with absolute certainty down through the ages, would make His act of establishing a Church void and meaningless --an impossibility.

Revelation confirms this fact:

Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age." --Jesus addressing the Apostles

"Go and make disciples of all the nations, baptising... and teaching them everything I have commanded you." --Jesus to the Apostles

This makes sense, because Jesus gives the Apostles together, and Peter, individually, the power to "bind and loose."

What does this mean?

Binding and loosing is an originally Jewish phrase which appears in the New Testament, as well as in the Targum. In usage to bind and to loose mean simply to forbid by an indisputable authority, and to permit by an indisputable authority.[1] The Targum to a particular Psalm[2] implies that these actions were considered to be as effectual as the spell of an enchanter.[1]

The poseks had, by virtue of their ordination, the power of deciding disputes relating to Jewish law.[1] Hence the difference between the two main schools of thought in early classical Judaism were summed up by the phrase the school of Shammai binds; the school of Hillel looses.[1]

--Wikipedia

+ + +

The power of binding and loosing was always claimed by the Pharisees. Under Queen Alexandra, the Pharisees, says Josephus ("B J." i, 5, § 2), "became the administrators of all public affairs so as to be empowered to banish and readmit whom they pleased, as well as to loose and to bind." This does not mean that, as the learned men, they merely decided what, according to the Law, was forbidden or allowed, but that they possessed and exercised the power of tying or untying a thing by the spell of their divine authority, just as they could, by the power vested in them, pronounce and revoke an anathema upon a person. The various schools had the power "to bind and to loose"; that is, to forbid and to permit (Ḥag. 3b); and they could bind any day by declaring it a fast-day (Meg. Ta'an. xxii.; Ta'an. 12a; Yer. Ned. i. 36c, d). This power and authority, vested in the rabbinical body of each age or in the Sanhedrin (see Authority), received its ratification and final sanction from the celestial court of justice (Sifra, Emor, ix.; Mak. 23b).

In the New Testament.

In this sense Jesus, when appointing his disciples to be his successors, used the familiar formula (Matt. xvi. 19, xviii. 18). By these words he virtually invested them with the same authority as that which he found belonging to the scribes and Pharisees who "bind heavy burdens and lay them on men's shoulders, but will not move them with one of their fingers"; that is, "loose them," as they have the power to do (Matt. xxiii. 2-4). In the same sense, in the second epistle of Clement to James II. ("Clementine Homilies," Introduction), Peter is represented as having appointed Clement as his successor, saying: "I communicate to him the power of binding and loosing so that, with respect to everything which he shall ordain in the earth, it shall be decreed in the heavens; for he shall bind what ought to be bound and loose what ought to be loosed as knowing the rule of the church." Quite different from this Judaic and ancient view of the apostolic power of binding and loosing is the one expressed in John xx. 23, where Jesus is represented as having said to his disciples after they had received the Holy Spirit: "Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained." It is this view which, adopted by Tertullian and all the church fathers, invested the head of the Christian Church with the power to forgive sins, the "clavis ordinis," "the key-power of the Church."

+ + +

“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach." --Jesus


1,386 posted on 05/08/2015 6:11:07 PM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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