Posted on 05/07/2015 7:08:16 AM PDT by Gamecock
LOL!
The problem is on your end, not mine.
I love confession. I try to go at least once per month. I find that if I go more often the priest seems a tad in a hurry since he knows that there is a line of people who need it more than I do or so he thinks. May just be my imagination though. I had an epiphany that the worst sin is believing that Jesus will not forgive my sins.
I was partially wrong. The following is from EWTN’s theological advisor, Colin Donovan:
Abortion - Excommunication
The way the excommunication for abortion works is this.
Canon 1398 provides that, “a person who procures a successful abortion incurs an automatic (latae sententiae) excommunication.” This means that at the very moment that the abortion is successfully accomplished, the woman and all formal conspirators are excommunicated.
An abortion is defined as “the killing of the foetus, in whatever way or at whatever time from the moment of conception” (Pontifical Council for the Interpretation of Legislative Texts, published in the “Acts of the Apostolic See” vol. 80 (1988), 1818). This definition applies to any means, including drugs, by which a human being present in the woman is killed. Thus, once a woman knows she is pregnant the intentional killing of the new life within her is not only murder but an excommunicable offense. A woman who only thinks she might be pregnant has a grave responsibility to find out and to protect the possible life within. Any action to end a “possible” pregnancy while probably not an excommunicable offense would be callous disregard for life and gravely sinful.
Conspirators who incur the excommunication can be defined as those who make access to the abortion possible. This certainly includes doctors and nurses who actually do it, husbands, family and others whose counsel and encouragement made it morally possible for the woman, and those whose direct practical support made it possible (financially, driving to the clinic etc.).
Clearly those who think the availability of chemical abortions will settle the abortion issue are deluded. It will only widen to drug manufacturers, pharmacists and family physicians those guilty of grave sin and subject to excommunication. [It should also be noted that many contraceptive pills are already abortifacient in operation. Theoretically, the knowing use of such a pill for its abortafacient purpose could also subject one to excommunication. Pill manufacturers have recently been touting this capability of their deadly wares.]
NOTE WELL To actually incur the excommunication one must know that it is an excommunicable offense at the time of the abortion. Canon 1323 provides that the following do not incur a sanction, those who are not yet 16, are unaware of a law, do not advert to it or are in error about its scope, were forced or had an unforeseeable accident, acted out of grave fear, or who lacked the use of reason (except culpably, as by drunkenness). Thus a woman forced by an abusive husband to have an abortion would not incur an excommunication, for instance, whereas someone culpably under the influence of drugs or alcohol would (canon 1325).
In any case, whether one has been excommunicated or not, the sin of abortion must be confessed as the taking of innocent human life (5th Commandment). If the penitent did not know about this law at the time of the abortion then he or she was NOT excommunicated. If the person knew about the law but there were extenuating circumstances (such as mentioned above concerning c. 1323) then these factors should be mentioned to the confessor. He will say whether he has the faculty from the bishop to absolve from this excommunication or whether he even needs to. If he does not, he will privately and secretly obtain absolution from the bishop or send the person to a confessor who has that power.
A person who believes they have been excommunicated must refrain from Holy Communion until both absolution for the sin and absolution for the excommunication has been given.
One complicating factor for anyone in this situation is that intentionally withholding mortal sin (abortion) or knowledge of one’s excommunication invalidates ALL the absolutions for other sins given since the time of the intentionally overlooked sin. Culpably withholding mortal sin or an excommunication means that even after the priest says the words of absolution because of dishonesty on the penitent’s part, the sin has not been absolved. Absolution is not magic, it depends upon sincere repentance from all known mortal sins and a firm purpose of amendment. Such sins would need to be confessed again, as part of an integral (complete and honest) confession. This is not the case if the person did not know that what they did was sinful in the eyes of God and the Church, but only found out this out latter. Since they did not withhold from confession what they knew to be sinful their prior confessions are valid.
The Church makes every effort to make Penance available and obliges priests to make anonymity possible as well (c. 964). There is really no valid excuse for delaying one’s full return to the sacraments. All those who have had abortions should come home to Christ and the Church.
It's all intended to make sure the penitent gets the best guidance possible.
Cut it out, Alex.
“If you want forgiveness of a sin, you go to confession, then you ask The Lord to take away your sin, and refrain from doing it again”
If you know your Bible, the Ten Commandments are there for us to live our lives by, as the whole Bible does.
I do NOT believe in “Mans” opinion because he man, God is God and I take my lead from Him and I do NOT believe in this ‘modern day’ thinking...
Thank you, but I'll do an believe in what I was taught...
My pastor has limited confession time available, not his fault, we borrow a church for Latin Mass. He has three people who confess every week. They are not hardened sinners. It can take away from those in real need, I have seen people turned away because Mass has to begin. I usually don’t confess to him because of the time thing, I go locally. I found a nice African priest with a real horror of sin, I liked him. Alas, he was not in the box last time I went.
Absolutely true. Personal repentance before Christ is essential; sacramental Confession is also essential for a person to seriously be renewed in the Sacramental life.
For my part, I realize I am so devious and casual or self-justifying in regard to sin, that I let myself off the hook too easily with rationalizations like, "My intentions were good," "I didn't actually do any harm," "They led me astray," etc. I greatly benefit from making things more objective by actually stating my sin out loud, straight, and like it is.
Forgiveness always requires real repentance, which includes avoidance of "near occasions of sin" in the future (the persons, places or situations that drew you into sin to begin with) and a firm intention not to repeat the sin.
Without this, absolution means nothing: and in fact, to go to Confession without the desire to turn away from this sin, constitutes sacrilege.
This is not legalism: it's just moral reality.
AND FINALLY: Gamecock, I am glad you posted this. People are getting the opportunity to understand more deeply, and that's always a good thing.
What about the thought of abortion...that is, a woman is considering it? She's walked it through in her mind.
Sin or no sin?
What about adultery? The person has through it through in their mind. Only the bishop can forgive? Or is this even a sin in catholicism?
It’s not about the priest for me.
the pope is on dope
Of course it is, but it doesn't incur an automatic excommunication as abortion, and some other sins, do.
Yes, I understand the utility in that, that's why James tells us to "confess our sins one to another".
NOT to have one's sins forgiven - only God can do that (washed in the blood of the Lamb).
Same here. I will continue, along with my wife. No man can truly forgive me my sins. There is only One that can do that.
FMCDH(BITS)
Catholics understand that only God can forgive sins.
“Jesus said if you lust after a woman in your heart, you’ve committed adultery. Does not the same thought process apply in this situation? “
Similarly, the next time you’re at church and they pass around the offering plate, all you have to do is think about putting something in. It’s something they don’t want you to know...
Of course it is, but it doesn't incur an automatic excommunication as abortion, and some other sins, do.
Again, aside from the real world results....why? Do you think God is not evaluating the heart of the individual in the matter of lust?
From the catholic perspective it is an "intentional" sin so would it not be considered a "mortal sin" in Catholicism?
It depends on whether it was a temptation (a persistent thought she tried to get rid of) or whether there was some degree of sinful consent. If she "entertained" the thought there was some consent; if she actually made a plan, there was even more. Acts savored or plotted out "in the mind" are sinful thoughts.
However that is not covered in the excommunication, which is for "procured" abortion.
"What about adultery? The person has through it through in their mind. Only the bishop can forgive? Or is this even a sin in catholicism? "
Of course (!) adultery is a sin "in Catholicism,"(!) because it's a sin both in the Ten Commandments (Divine Law) and in Natural Law. Like every kind of murder, every kind of sexual offense is "grave matter" --- which means, if you went into it willingly, with sufficient knowledge and consent, it is a mortal sin.
Deliberately savoring the thought of adultery is a sin, as you know, because Jesus Christ specifically addresses it in the Sermon on the Mount. Any temptation that you don't resist, becomes a sin if you consent to it. It's one of the automatic excommunication offenses, though. Not all mortal sins are.
As I understand it, usually a sin gets put into that category when it is a serious wrong not particularly prohibited by secular law.
For instance, the there are only nine sins that incur automatic excommunication in the current 1983 Code of Canon Law: abortion, apostasy, heresy, schism, violating the sacred species (sacrilege against the Eucharist), physically attacking the pope, sacramentally absolving an accomplice in a sexual sin, consecrating a bishop without authorization, and directly violating the seal of confession.
As I understand it, at one time engaging in sword-dueling was excommunicated by Canon Law: not because injuring or killing somebody with a sword was worse than with a pistol or a baseball bat, but because at the time there were places where dueling wasn't illegal, and was even considered honorable.
For instance I believe at some Continental Universities in the 18th or 19th centuries, (University of Heidelberg was one) refusing a duel was considered unmanly, and sporting a saber scar acquired in dueling was an element of macho pride. So the German bishops at that time --- as I understand it --- unable to get the secular authorities to enforce a ban, petitioned to get excommunication applied to that as an ecclesiastical penalty.
Abortion is singled out for excommunication because secular law does not condemn or punish it at all.
Weren’t priests always allowed to pardon sinners of whatever kind (if repentant)?
Isn’t this the church that never changes ??
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