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To: smvoice; daniel1212; Zuriel; roamer_1
You can't say that it happened on June 14 at 3:00. But you CAN say that you KNOW, according to Paul's epistles, that it could NOT have begun before HE was saved and given the gospel of the grace of God to give to the Gentiles. I'm sorry you cannot understand this.

I am sorry you did not understand my question.

At what point did Peter and the 11 abandon the kingdom gospel and start preaching the grace gospel? Obviously God is not a God of confusion and would not have two sets of 'called out ones' and would settle for just one gospel for the 'Greek and Jew.' So when did that happen? Mid Acts, late Acts? After Acts?

Also, if the Gospel of Grace is not Christ crucified, died, and risen from the dead for the remission of sins (as Peter preached) then what is it? What work of Paul defines the Gospel message that he preached and Cephas and the 11 preached?

507 posted on 05/27/2015 8:00:54 AM PDT by redleghunter (1 Peter 1:3-5)
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To: redleghunter; CynicalBear

See Cynical Bear’s post 505. I am going to let the Holy Spirit handle this. After all, it is God that “hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God” 1 Cor. 2:10. His job is to reveal truth.


509 posted on 05/27/2015 8:18:53 AM PDT by smvoice (I would explain it better, but I only know a few words...)
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To: redleghunter; CynicalBear

Dear jimeny crickets, redleghunter, can you not read simple words? I have stated again and Again and AGAIN that the “gospel of the grace of God is Christ dying FOR OUR SINS, being buried, and then being raised again on the third day for our salvation. It is PETER who did not preach Christ dying FOR OUR SINS FOR SALVATION. Read his Pentecost sermon again. He preached Christ dying, being buried and rising again the third day as kingdom gospel. That when Israel as a nation realized that Christ was INDEED their prophesied Messish, they repented and were baptized so that the days of refreshing might come and God would send Christ back. Read Peter’s sermon AS IT IS WRITTEN, WORD FOR WORD. And don’t try to anticipate revelation that had yet to be revealed. You know it’s there because you’re HERE, looking back. But they did not have that luxury. They were told by Peter that Joel’s prophecy concerning Israel and Messiah’s eminent return to set up His kingdom was happening. And they believed it. So much that they repented, were baptized, gave all they had away and had all things in common, and awaited the eminent return of their Messiah, Jesus Christ. Read CB’s post 505. I cannot keep posting the same things again and again. Unless you decide to actually READ WHAT GOD’S WORD ACTUALLY SAYS>


513 posted on 05/27/2015 8:31:27 AM PDT by smvoice (I would explain it better, but I only know a few words...)
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To: redleghunter; smvoice; daniel1212; CynicalBear; Kandy Atz; Springfield Reformer; Alamo-Girl; ...
May I offer, with all humility of age and decades of study, that The Church Age began at Pentecost. The Holy Spirit coming into believers, knowing the heart of each who was listening and responding accordingly in their spirits, God's Holy Spirit is the proof that the Church Age began at Pentecost.

That said, Peter and the twelve were men raised as Jews. They were pressing Jesus first to prove He was Messiah come (John 14) then even after the resurrection pressing Him to see if He would then institute the Kingdom Age. These twelve did not yet comprehend that Salvation is by Grace when one believes in their heart that Jesus is Whom God sent for the propitiation of sins. They knew it in their hearts but still carried the baggage of Judaism which colored their perspective, as if they could not quite accept that the weeks prophesied in Daniel nine were getting a pause, a pause which we know has lasted nearly 2000 years.

There is a gradual awakening to this reality in the twelve, as evidenced by God having to show Peter three times the flaw in his reasoning, and he still didn't comprehend it until he saw for himself in the house of Cornelius that the Holy Spirit comes when someone believes int ehir heart!

Even by the time of the Great Church Council at Jerusalem, a letter is issued from James and the assembly to the Gentiles being evangelized by Paul, stating the requirements for being a Church member, and it did not list a lengthy Judaic TORH list to follow or even anything more than 'you will do well by avoiding these few things. For writing the letter was included 'that Moses (meaning the law and prophets) was offered for generations in their cities' (synagogues abounded).

The point of focus for the Church Age IS the Grace of God available to any who say in their heart what Peter uttered under Holy Spirit guidance in Matthew 16:16. The great mystery was hard for Peter and the eleven to awaken to since they were steeped in Judaism. Only gradually did they come to realize that it is by FAITH ALONE that the Holy Spirit descended INTO believers, even before Peter could finish fumbling the sermon! There is a convergence of preaching that took time to converge. But by the end of Acts, God's Spirit had unified the Church message. And it was left to Catholicism to diverge that Truth into a nicolaiten oligarchy which to this day denies the simplicity of the Gospel so that they (the Catholic hierarchy) are empowered by the organizational hierarchy blinding themselves and the followers. BUT EVEN IN THAT fog, some hearts are awakening and being sealed by His Spirit!

Because the revelation of Truth is at the spirit level and salvation is immediate when one believes in their heart, satan cannot change a saved person into someone never born from above. He therefore works to blunt their fruit bearing, using things like Institutional High Church which 'sanctifies' a cannibalistic misinterpretation of the Last Supper for remembrance of Jesus' Sacrifice for us. Or twists the scenes from the work of Paul to mean snakes should be handled to show faith or strychnine should be consumed to prove faith worthy of deliverance. KA hit is solid with 'foolery'.

While Peter preached a different Gospel message from that of Paul, for a while, it did contain the essential element hidden from the world up until Pentecost, that Jesus, as a man, being God with us, had died in our place so that we may have His life in us, the hope of Glory.

Though Peter had a kingdom perspective when he preached Christ crucified for all, his preaching gradually went from kingdom focus to the same sermon content Paul was given by revelation to reveal. The Church Age began at Pentecost, despite the Jews still stumbling on the expectation of the Kingdom. The Church Age must have dawned on Peter by/in the house of Cornelius, but I would guess he left that home still puzzled over how the Kingdom and the Church Age were to be unified.

God's Holy Spirit was doing something that took satan by surprise, God revealed His Grace, in Christ, to the entire world because of the rejection of Him by those to whom he was sent, thus putting off the Kingdom Age until the seventieth week of Daniel would be finished. Satan did not see the pause coming, and it has taken him nearly two thousand years to prepare his next battle plan, to thwart the conversion of humans during the Tribulation, with his great lie.

For satan to have the opportunity to spew this great lie upon the survivors after the Rapture, God's restraining influence will first be 'apostasized', departed, taken out of the way via the Rapture of The Church, The Body of Christ. We are facing a similar state of confusion confronted in the earliest manifestation of the Church Age. Though the Grace is contained in the preaching, it is gnarled up in all sorts of institutional falderal and ritual works. It is the belief in thine heart that Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of The Living God, that has activated the Grace of God in the souls of men and women, for God's Spirit goes to and fro throughout the whole earth seeking any boy, girl, man or woman who will let God be God IN THEM.

522 posted on 05/27/2015 8:53:35 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Is it really all relative, Mister Einstein?)
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