Posted on 05/31/2015 3:00:30 PM PDT by NYer
You posted, “Christ founded the Church and promised that the Gates of Hell would not prevail against it.” I’m curious, do you mean Jesus established a Spiritual Church or an institution, or somehow both wound up in the Roman establishment?
The Catholic Church is made up of saints and sinners. Hopefully all are seeking the Truth and salvation with Jesus Christ. Perhaps too many do not want to follow the teachings of Jesus and go along with the values of today’s society.
We have a strong tradition of the Sacraments and the Word of God established by Jesus.
We are bound together as the Body of Christ and we are stronger with God’s graces. We have strengths and weaknesses as individuals, and even as the Body of Christ. Christ realizes that we are human and striving to be like Him.
We all have different paths and different levels of maturity. We continue to learn about God’s will for us.
I am concerned about the moral values of our society and even the actions of many Catholics and non Catholics. I am concerned that there are evil people that cause much harm and influence and lead others away from God.
The Body of Christ has grown and survived even if there are still many weaknesses in the Church. We still have to lead others to Christ and spread the Good News of Jesus.
There is a lot of good in society and there is a lot of love of God and neighbor. We need to continue to build on the good and let God take care of the evil.
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
—Matt 16.18 (KJV)
I should add that Peter’s name originally was Simon. But when He chose him, Jesus changed it to Peter (Petrus), which is the Latin for rock. But that should be familiar enough.
So you are representing Catholicism and don’t have an answer, meaning it could be anything in your mind?
And when the Greek was written down by Matthwe he used petra for the slab of rock upon which he would build His Church. Petra being the feminine form of the word, are you saying Jesus was referring to Peter as a gal? Even early Catholic Church Fathers took the meaning of the verse to be that Jesus would build His Church upon the profession.
If your failed clergy and sinful laity are not your 'Church', what in the world is your Church???
Oh. I know. Thanks.
If satan could ‘grab’ any Born from Above Christian then satan would be more powerful than God. Think, for the sake of your immortal soul, THINK! Salvation is ONLY in God’s hands. Once you profess anything even close to what Peter professed in Matthew 16:16, GOD’S Spirit takes over and you are hide in Christ. The degree to which you grow in His Grace and His Knowledge depends then upon how much you turn yourself over to His transforming you. But that is not about Salvation it is about what shows up at the Bema Seat in Heaven. IF once saved you7 could be unsaved your salcation guarantee would be based on your abilities, and the response to such blasphemy is God Forbid. If you have to earn ANYTHING in the Salvation calculation then it is no longer by Grace ... THINK!
One is not saved by believing one is saved by grace. One must obey the Messiah and keep his commandments. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
Matthew, Catholic chapter twenty four, Protestant verses forty two to fifty one,
First Peter, Catholic chapter five, Protestant verses eight to nine,
as authorized, but not authorized, by King James
Can you yet tell me what is the gospel by which God has chosen to seal a believer's spirit, to hide the believer in Christ?
Your comment: “You nor I of our work can keep the commandments.”
So you do not have free will to sin or to obey God’s commandments. Yes god’s grace will help us obey His commandments, but it is our choice to do good or evil.
The Catholic Church teaches that humanity is saved by Christ’s suffering and death, yet we must keep God’s commandments to gain Heaven. A prideful assumption that one has already met the requirements of salvation may prevent one from gaining Heaven.
Let us all pray for those souls in Purgatory.
St. Paul had already made very clear in Romans 2:6-7 that good works are necessary for eternal life.
Amen ADSUM.
Here is more from St. Paul who clearly teaches that works (charitable actions) are necessary for believers.
1 Tim. 6:18
I Cor. 13:2
Titus 3:8
The idea that that we are justified without works is absurd and unbiblical.
Works without belief won’t justify us either, of course.
Believing and continuing to sin will not save the person. It is both and this is St. Paul’s position. Otherwise why would the bible speak of the need for judgment? Apocalypse 20:12 ((rhetorical question)
Excellent post.
Yes, we can keep his commandments. Yes, it is only by grace that we will be saved. Yes, we can live a life worthy of our calling. Yes, we are sealed by the Holy Spirit. If someone says he knows the Messiah but does not keep his commandments he is a liar. Which type of faith community which which have you chosen to regularly assemble ? When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him. I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. But ye have not so learned Christ; If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil. Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
Matthew, Catholic chapter twenty five, Protestant verses thirty one to forty six,
Romans, Catholic chapter twelve, Protestant verses one to three,
Colossians, Catholic chapter three, Protestant verses one to seventeen,
Ephesians, Catholic chapter four, Protestant verses one to seven, and then Protestants verses seventeen to thirty two,
First John, Catholic chapter one, Protestant verses three to seven,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
“Cardinal Newman made the argument convincingly.”
Thank you for your testimony Cicero. I also am a fan of St. John Henry Cardinal Newman and own a copy of his “Apologia Pro Vita Sua”.
I was born a cradle Catholic but never really believed until my late 20’s (I did attend mass though, never formally left) due to the terrible catechesis that passed for formation in central New York in the 1960’s. The Vatican II I’m OK you’re OK pop psychology formation instead of doctrine did not resonate.
At around 30 I started reading pre-Vatican II Catholicism written by the saints and doctors of the Church and realized that the Catholic Faith was the one true visible Church established by Christ. I looked very briefly at the evangelical concept of faith alone but even a cursory study of its total lack of depth was apparent immediately.
The bitter ex catholics who were questioning because of poor catechesis ought to have read more deeply instead of abandoning ship.
Again, than you for the excellent witness.
God seals the spirit of any boy, girl, man, or woman with His Holy Spirit when their soul responds to the simple Gospel Truth that Jesus is The Savior and He died and God raised Him from the Dead to show He has paid the price and it is sufficient for all the sins of any human being and all human beings who will just bow their will and say thank you Lord for being my Savior. We have Scriptural evidence that this Grace is applied immediately, that this 'transaction' happens immediately, this Grace is sealed upon the human soul/spirit.
Peter's preaching at Pentecost in Jerusalem following The Lords Ascension, and his sermon scene at the house of Cornelius registers the truth of it, that Salvation is immediate and by God's Grace. Those pricked in their hearts by the preaching were immediately Saved and sealed by His Spirit, God's Holy Spirit. When Jesus spoke to Saul on the road to Damascus, the very pricks which resonated at Pentecost and in the home of Cornelius resonated in Saul and he believed the Gospel and God's Spirit responded accordingly, immediately.
When Scripture says 'added to the church' they are not referring to some institution, some quixotic spiritual YoYo imagined by men. This Ekklesia is a clear picture of the spiritual Church which Christ spoke of in Matthew 16:18. This Church is composed of ALL who faithe (an action word) in the finished work (not nearly finished and in need of all that you can do to keep it secure) of The Lamb Slain from the foundation of the world. There is no man except Jesus Who can place God's Holy Spirit seal upon your soul, and He does it according to His Grace the hour you first believe, when you faithe in His FINISHED work.
To THAT Church I am bound and give utterance and testify for daily. I am a witness of His power to Save to the uttermost, for I am in His hands, no longer belonging to the Adamic world of sin and death. BUT I retain, in His mercy, the body which is tied to sin and death. In a daily walk I submit that spiritually diseased body to His Salvic sanctification. I am already Justified by His Death and Resurrection, sealed by His Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption in which He will come to take His possession away with Him to the 'There' Jesus referred to in John 14:1-3 :
1“Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also."
Once sealed by His Holy Spirit, there is no man nor any thing which can take me out of His hands. I have His seal upon my spirit and no man (which includes me in the 'no man') can take me from Him. THAT is the Gospel, that He immediately comes to the broken and contrite spirit and places His seal upon that spirit when that soul calls upon Jesus as Savior. THAT IS The Grace of God in Christ. THAT is the Gospel for this Church Age, for the ones to be added to His ekklesia.
There is no thing in earth, heaven, nor hell which can break and unseal that spirit sealed By His Holy Spirit. There is no falling from salvation, only falling from a close sanctifyi8ng relationship. Of such an one Paul writes the fire at the Bema seat will burn away the dross yet the man will be saved. Why? Because the one placing the Seal upon that soul cannot be defeated, for 'Τετέλεσται'. There is therefore no man or institution which could restore His seal if it were possible to break it by my stumbling.
Romans 7:21 - 8:4So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 2For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful natured a slave to the law of sin.
(8:1-4) Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
If someone says he knows the Messiah but does not keep his commandments he is a liar. With which brand of faith community have you chosen to regularly assemble ? He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
John, Catholic chapter fourteen Protestant verses twenty one to twenty four,
Matthew, Catholic chapter twenty eight, Protestant verses eighteen to twenty,
First John, Catholic chapter five, Protestant verses two to three,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
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