Posted on 06/09/2015 3:51:50 PM PDT by stockpirate
In a highly symbolic book like revelation, why is it a literal mark ?
Was it a literal mark or seal or sign in deuteronomy 6:8?
That sign in Deuteronomy placed in the same place as described in revelation , was to show obedience to His law.
Revelation 13 has clues in it that the satanic alliance will break and cause others to break His first 4 Commandments- the commandments about worship..
That is lawlessness.
Which is exactly what the mark symbolizes.disobedience.
You can see them if you look.
(Worship beast, worship image, blaspheme name, remember Sabbath ( which was a sign of His people) , His 1st 4.
The first four commandmemts would be under attack by the enemy..why? To steal worship and to ascend to the mount of congregation and be like the most High..
sad to say, Christianty does this - mother and daughters .
Rome has changed times and laws, including the calendar, the commandments,and the sabbath..
Now that would be a twist wouldnt it?
Lots of people waiting to be picked up when their entire work and worship life is determined by what the first reformers called Antichrist..( as in Rome, papacy and the popes)
That is if the world running on a calendar named after a pope is not just an odd coincidence..
But the today(and every day)names today after some false god..
And billions are blind to it.
Satan truly does deceive the whole world
The man who signs the peace treaty with Israel.
There are many passages in both the Old Testament and the New Testament teaching about the end times. They wouldn't be there if we were not to know and understand. Even the apostles asked Jesus.
Matthew 24:3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"
Oh?
"deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum
illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino
erimus" (1Thessalonians 4:17 Vulgate)
Explain "rapiemur" in this verse
"Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet Christ, into the air: and so shall we be always with the Lord" (1 Thessalonian 4:17, 4:16 in DRB)
Explain rapiemur "taken up (by force)" in this verse.
" επειτα ημεις οι ζωντες οι περιλειπομενοι αμα συν αυτοις αρπαγησομεθα εν νεφελαις εις απαντησιν του κυριου εις αερα και ουτως παντοτε συν κυριω " (1 Thessalonians 4:17 from the Textus Receptus of Desiderius Erasmus)
Explain αρπαγησομεθα (harpadzometha = future tense, passive voice, indicative mode, first person plural of the verb harpadzo "to snatch away") in the Greek as originally written by The Holy Spirit speaking through Paul.
Explain why this event is not a rapture, a false belief.
Please.
Yes, I am sorry. Your interpretation is, of course, correct. I am sorry for making a fool of myself, alas, I will surely burn in hell, and you by virtue of the Truth, the One Great Truth on this particular day as interpreted by folks of your choosing and by you, will be Saved. Do not doubt it, wise one!
Always context. LOL I was reading 40 days of purpose and looked up EVERY scripture reference. Got halfway through after writing many post-its and realized I was wasting my time.
As for the concordance, I use it when I am doing a subject study and then, again, I look up every reference and read it in context. It takes months and months but it is thorough. I also get ideas for other search terms from doing it that way. I first did it to find out what God thinks about abortion. Had to search for “sacrifice” and then found “passing through the fire” and then on and on. I learned that God does not forgive a nation for practicing, but will forgive the repentant individual.
I am planning on doing studies on God avenging the innocent (God’s vengeance is not restrained by time...hard concept to grasp) and also on the rule of the Messiah. Jesus is so prevailing in David’s Psalms that I will no longer be able to read them same way. I read them now as visions of His life. One eye-opener was Psalm 18. I believe it is a vision of Jesus in hell and the Father’s response.
The Bible overwhelms with awe, joy, and humble acknowledgement that God truly does love us.
Nicely put and I agree.
Your accusation of spreading falsehood can only be based on confusing the rapture, of which I only said it coincided with the general resurrection, with the pre-tribulation rapture, which I wrote against.
The consensus patrum is squarely on the Scriptural passages adduced to support the “rapture”, describing an event coincident with the general resurrection. It’s not heresy to call it “the rapture” (though that word is an innovation), but it’s heresy to teach that it precedes the general resurrection and the Last Judgement.
You plainly have not read the patristic sources you cite, just pulled them from a list of sources someone claims support, I’m not sure what, “the rapture”, okay, it’s there in First Thessalonians, so of course the Fathers believed it, the “pre-tribulation rapture”, not so much: the Epistle of Barnabas contains exhortations to continued faithfulness during the tribulation, St. Justin the Philosopher (called Justin Martyr in the West) points to “the man of apostacy” as a sign of Christ’s second coming, St. Irenaeus explicitly describes those who are awaiting Christ’s coming while still in the flesh as having suffered tribulation.
First Thessalonians makes the timing absolutely clear. “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” It is plain from Our Lord’s words in the Gospel of John that the resurrection to life and the resurrection to judgement will be coincident in time, so the “rapture” takes place on the Last Day.
Moving the event to before the tribulation is sentimental 19th century heresy, not “a thing displayed in the Scriptures”. What is more, the heresy is materially harmful to salvation (that’s the point of opposing heresies, it’s not just that they’re false, it’s that they are spiritually harmful): any Christians who will be alive in the end-times, if they believe firmly in the pre-tribuation rapture, will reason that the Antichrist is not the Antichrist because the rapture has not taken place, will be easy prey for him, and fall into apostasy.
Of course there’s a “Rapture”: it describes the experience of faithful Christians who are alive on the Last Day. (I’m not sure why the protestants want a technical word for that, but they do, so I’m not going to pick a fight.) What is heresy is moving the event described in First Thessalonians as coincident with the General Resurrection to a point in time prior to the fulfillment of most of what is prophesied in the Apocalypse of St. John, the “Pre-Trib Rapture”. Sentimental 19th century twaddle, and spiritually ruinous for any Christians who believe in it and live to see the end times.
Are you speaking of the Final Judgment?
Of course. That’s what the Holy Apostle Paul is talking about in First Thessalonians.
You must be a Catholic, you sound like a Catholic anyway. You made a false statement. I pointed out your false statement and you now try to obfuscate your error. Very Catholic that.
If they are not in Heaven, the dead Christians, then whom is it that God will bring with Him when He comes to take away His Bride?
That’s right, if we believe in being taken up alive or not we still can not get around the fact that it happens on the last day.
1 cor 15
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Jesus said I will raise you up at the last day, Paul says the last trump which must be the same.
Rev 10
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
I believe if we read chapter 9 and the fifth and sixth trumpets we can see that this world is in bad trouble even before the seventh or last trumpet sounds.
And while it is true that the plagues were for those people with out the seal of God in their foreheads it does by implication say Gods people will also be here.
I am not trying to quench the happiness of believers but I do not believe people who are happy with this world and with them selves would want to go any where else.
Are you a Catholic? Is being a Catholic where you get this explanation?
Yes! I agree!
But their could be multiple treaties...the number of his name is important as well...
“Yes, I am sorry. Your interpretation is, of course, correct.” LOL God has a sense of humor and even uses mocking at times. But when one tries to use such to avoid confronting the realities God emphasizes for their salvation, well, that way lies destruction, friend.
The treaty Scriptures teach of is a seven year treaty which causes Jews to cry ‘Peace and Safety’. It is that treaty which the Son of Perdition, the man of sin breaks at the 3 1/2 year mark.
Yes! That is very evident in scripture. But there could be multiple 7 year agreements. The EU have numerous 7 year agreements with numerous nations. The point is that it is possible that it may not be so obvious which treaty is THE treaty (”covenant with death”). We may need to know the “number of the beast’s name” in order to really know for sure...
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