The Tribulation, I have a couple for my FRiends.

VANITY ^ | 6/9/2015 | Stockpirate

[stockpirate]

My questions pertain to the tribulation they are as follows:

1. If there is a rapture, does it happen before or after people start receiving the mark of the beast?

2. If before is there some event that happens prior to receiving the mark of the beast?

I'm not looking to debate if there is or isn't a rapture, just where in the progression of events people are forced to receive the mark of the beast and we move to a cashless world.

[SuzyQue]

“He even went so far as to cut pages of text out which he didn’t want to accept.”

That’s partially correct; Jefferson was trying to extract the moral code from the Bible, because he: “believed that the ethical system of Jesus was the finest the world has ever seen. In compiling what has come to be called “The Jefferson Bible,” he sought to separate those ethical teachings from the religious dogma and other supernatural elements that are intermixed in the account provided by the four Gospels. He presented these teachings, along with the essential events of the life of Jesus, in one continuous narrative.”

http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/

[MHGinTN]

Thank you

[ravenwolf]

Sorry, I misunderstood.

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That’s ok, I think we all do that.

[imardmd1]

I’m a Christian.

We'll see. By their fruits ye shall know them."

If you read the Bible thoroughly, you must deduce that God does not secretly remove believers from earth for several years and THEN returns.

You haven't read your Bible thoroughly, or you would know that:

A. In His First Coming from Heaven as the Suffering Servant (for the Cross, to enlist disciples) there were two stages:

(1) privately, to His Own as the Son of Man, incarnated as a human babe, God-in-the-flesh, the Only one ever.

(2) publicly, as the Only Begotten Son of The God, the Rabbi, teacher, physician, and prophet; executed on the Cross for His teachings, fulfilling the Law, and seen by all.

B. Then He arose from the grave as the firstborn from the dead ones, ascended to Heaven, and sat at the right hand of The God, from whence He shall return royally as The King of Heaven and Earth to set up His government, also in two stages:

(1) privately, in the clouds, to withdraw and snatch away The Holy Ghost, the Restrainer, and His Own The Bride, the Assembly of sold-out bond-servants, all being regenerated believer-disciple-priests, for the judgment of their works, the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, and the assignment of geographical areas for them to rule under Him; saving them away to Heaven that His Body might not see the corruption of the Great Tribulation encompassing the globe; then,

(2) publicly, with all his reigning saints, to the Earth and to the wailing survivors of the Great Tribulation, to be seen by whom and for whom He was pierced and killed, that every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess Him as Lord Of All, and to set up His Millennial reign over the earthlings through His Viceroy David.

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Now go and reread your Bible with this truth in mind, this plan of redemption that The God has disclosed throughout the Bible.

[MHGinTN]

Selah. Jesus will not be seen by those without the seal of the Holy Spirit in them. In fact, it is that indwelling Holy Spirit which will resonate when the trumpet sounds to come up hither. While Jesus will not be seen, the result of removing millions of people operating machinery will create a chaos impossible to ignore. And that is when the man of sin will fabricate THE lie and God will send strong delusion for those still on earth to believe The Lie.

[imardmd1]

THIS IS WHEN THE DEAD IN CHRIST WILL RISE UP THEN THOSE WHO ARE LEFT. THIS IS THE LAST TRUMPET, AM I CORRECT

You need to be careful on this, and check the context. This trump in 1Cor. 15:52 is the trumpet announcing the end ofthe "Church Age," the gathering of the persons, dead and alive, at the time of their removal from earth, the reinvestment of the saints into their new bodies, and the beginning of their eternal walk with their King in these new bodies.

The seven years of tribulation are to follow this, a period in which the Holy Spirit will be absent from the earth.

This trump, this shofar, is only the last of the Church age, not the last one ever. Consider the Army post, in which the call of "Taps" is sounded. That is the last trumpet of that day of activities to which the soldiers have been summoned by various trumpet calls.

In God's plan, this is not absolutely the last call of all, for there will be several described in the book of the Revelation, but it is the last one summoning Saints for the end of their suffering, sorrow, and physical death, and to receive their new bodies in their new life with Christ.

Christ-rejectors will have yet more trumpet warnings of God's judgment and wrath to endure.

[imardmd1]

I used the term “saints” (holy ones) which includes all those saved by faith from Adam up to the day of Pentecost, the day of the beginning of the church age when the Holy Ghost came to thereafter indwell ragenerated believer-disciples of Jesus. So don’t forget that Old Tstament saints will be raised up at the Rapture, as well.

[SkyPilot]

Thanks for the reply space. I am always glad for thoughtful responses such as yours.

The "Sons of God" mentioned in Job 1:6; 2;1; 38:7 refer to angels.

The Hebrew interpretation of the morning stars and angels is determined by almost any reasonable Biblical scholar as referring to the angelic. In fact, the Bible refers to Satan himself as the morning star in other books.

Genesis 6 also refers to angels - and I believe it refers to mating with humans. This is one of the reasons God destroyed the earth in the flood - because of this awful hybrid race.

But putting all of that aside, the Book of Job is clear that Satan went before God in Heaven and had to give an account to Him.

This definitely means that Satan is not yet completely on the earth, nor is he completely in heaven, since he wanders the earth seeking to devour.

Is Satan himself in Hell yet? No, not yet, although he has dominion over Hell and the demons who are imprisoned there. Satan will be bound and tossed into the bottomless pit, along with the false prophet, at the end of the Tribulation, and even then will be allowed back on earth for a short time after the 1,000 years of Christ's earthly millennial reign.

[Iscool]

If all the believers are taken away by the rapture who will witness to unbelievers?

Exactly 144,000 hand picked preachers of God...

[Iscool]

May I ask a serious question? I do not mean for it to be confrontational in any way, so please excuse it if it seems that way. It is not my intent. My question: Why does it matter? Aren't we supposed to life a life of goodness and not worry too much about the End Times? Thank you in advance. 😊

NOPE...There is an expiration date on the life of the church...We are to help lead as many as we can to Jesus before that expiration date...

[Iscool]

We also know that it was not Paul who wrote 1 Thessalonians because he is said to have been killed in Rome.

Well of course not...It was Thessal...

[Iscool]

So don’t forget that Old Tstament saints will be raised up at the Rapture, as well.

I believe the OT saints were herded into a place called Abraham's Bosom...And they have already been raised by Jesus when he unlocked the gates of hell...

[spacejunkie2001]

and you, too, offer a very thoughtful response...thank you :)

[SkyPilot]

Thank you. I really mean that.

[stockpirate]

While it appears many Christians hope for a rapture, I would hope that the Lord would take me through the tribulation and stand on the word of god, empowered by his spirit.

[stockpirate]

that’s what I get from the verses they gave to me to support the rapture, it happens at the end, Christians are in the tribulation.

[MHGinTN]

So what does Rev 3 mean when Jesus instructs the Church of Philadelphia that He will keep them from the hour of testing, not just the testing?

[ravenwolf]

Well of course not...It was Thessal...

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Who ever it was got raptured out of this world.

[ravenwolf]

that’s what I get from the verses they gave to me to support the rapture, it happens at the end, Christians are in the tribulation.

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Yep, Jesus himself said he would raise the believers up at the last day, so it does not matter what any one else says.

[imardmd1]

imardmd1: So don’t forget that Old Tstament saints will be raised up at the Rapture, as well.

Iscool: I believe the OT saints were herded into a place called Abraham's Bosom...And they have already been raised by Jesus when he unlocked the gates of hell..

I see this as being close, but just a little different. Here's the picture I see:

(1) Abraham's Bosom and Paradise are euphemisms for the compartment of Sheol clearly separated from the Hades compartment.

(2) When Jesus as our Eternal High Priest successfully offered His Blood on the True Heavenly Mercy Seat, thus fully assuaging God's fiery wrath against humans trusting in Christ, Paradise/Abraham's Bosom was relocated to Go's heaven, together with the souls of the Old Testament saints. (3) the bodies of these OT saints still remained in the grave (except, so far, of Enoch's body and Elijah's body).

Here's the related diagram:

Point 1A locates the timing of Jesus' ascension. Point 1B locates the timing of the pre-Tribulation rapture. This is from the page on the Happy Heralds, Inc. site.