People on both sides of this fight have been the brunt of bad treatment. It’s not good, but it is to be expected. In post 236 you say the Gospel is that Jesus died for our sins according to the Scripture. One might think the resurrection was important to defining the Gospel as well, not to mention other important attributes of the Gospel proclaimed throughout Scripture.
But assuming we limit the Gospel to just your definition, I can say that in almost every thread I can think of that Gospel has been proclaimed. For example, as near as I can remember, every time we discuss the Eucharist, the evangelical apologist will assert that the Lord’s Supper is a holy remembrance of His death for us, for our sins. Your side prefers to build magnificent quasi-Aristotelian sand-castles around that simple Gospel truth, guarded at the drawbridge by a priesthood that has no basis in Scripture.
Let me ask you then, as you should know this: What was Christ’s attitude toward those during His earthly ministry who were “keeping guard” against the simple message of the Gospel as He presented it, faith in Him? Was He conciliatory? Or was He a barnstormer for the truth? Is He not our example?
But yes, I say all that, and it’s no excuse for petty sniping. I am with you in rejecting that. But please do not confuse our urgency to reject the false Gospel of Rome with any desire to fight for the sake of the fight.
When I get drawn into one of these things, it is always a mixed set of feelings. On the one hand, it turns my stomach. I hate fighting. I’d rather be singing praise songs. Preferable with someone else’s voice, as mine is hardly a singing voice at all.
One the other hand, I will testify that I have also learned a great deal in these conflicts. And I have come to moments of such deep appreciation of what God has done for me in Christ it has given me a blessing of praise and giving glory to God.
So I think if all you are seeing is bitterness and acrimony, you may be missing some important aspects of what goes on here.
Peace,
SR
Then do that, Springfield.
The definition I used was an invitation to remember Paul's in 1 Co 15.
15 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas,[b] and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
As will I.
FWIW, these threads have strengthened my ability to witness to family and friends. Breaking down all the errors that people are indoctrinated with from a very young age is not easy.
Amen to that! I read most every thread on the RF and there are many gems to be had if you can stand the heat in the kitchen.
"So I think if all you are seeing is bitterness and acrimony, you may be missing some important aspects of what goes on here."
It's been said here many times that all this so-called bickering distracts us from the real threats.ie:islam,isis etc.
I doubt anyone here would deny there is a very large and ugly spiritual war looming.So when I see many arguing for the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice and the assurance believers should have of their salvation over against those who deem said assurance a 'sin of presumption' I can't help but think this is akin to a platoon of soldiers about to go over the top whilst arguing about wether they should wear their helmet.
What goes on here is VERY important and I am gratefull to God for those He has here preaching HIS Word.
By God's grace they know who they are!
I have delivered some; I have received some.
I have been reading and/or participating in forum theological debates since the time when FR was started, here and elsewhere. I have read a LOT of them and still do. What you say is so true. And no single side never goes without crossing the line at times. Even the most Godly get petty from time to time. It is our sin nature rearing its ugly head.
But what I have seen though, is the preponderance of rational and loving posts of the "side" which has the right doctrine. And by loving, not just brotherly love, but sometimes the hard love of preaching the gospel when it is not welcome, especially after having to hit hard at exposing heresy and error that leads away from salvation. But, that is what we are called to do.
It is through such debates that I came to reject some false teachings that I heard at the church I attended, and elsewhere. It was as much by the consistent overall attitude and godliness as by the biblical arguments, ones that did not stoop to ad hominem and straw men. Ones that hit hard, but with love and grace and always the gospel.
When I get drawn into one of these things, it is always a mixed set of feelings. On the one hand, it turns my stomach. I hate fighting. I’d rather be singing praise songs. Preferable with someone else’s voice, as mine is hardly a singing voice at all.
I don't post much because I know it is too easy for me to get petty and snarky. I did that way more than I ever care to admit over the years. I do pray for all as I read the debates. I learned the hard way that we just need to be obedient and willing vessels, ready to do what we are called to do, no matter how many stones are thrown at us. And to do it with grace, as much as we are able, knowing we will stumble and get petty from time to time.
One the other hand, I will testify that I have also learned a great deal in these conflicts. And I have come to moments of such deep appreciation of what God has done for me in Christ it has given me a blessing of praise and giving glory to God.
Like Jacob, it is a struggle and a wrestling to give up our man centered beliefs, but it is a loving God who wrestles with us to bring us to truth. I was no exception. watching how others reacted during the debates was a way in which I saw my own constant pettiness and realized that I was knee deep in sin, somewhere. The other "side" was not that way, although, with my cohorts, they were rational, biblically founded, Godly, and loving. I thought that they were petty and unkind, but only because they didn't think like "we" thought. Instead, it was God, in His infinite grace that was convicting me of my sin and error and lovingly bringing me to truth. Oh, how marvelous He is!
So I think if all you are seeing is bitterness and acrimony, you may be missing some important aspects of what goes on here.
So true! He is growing many people in grace, is bringing some to salvation, but is also pronouncing judgment on those whose hearts are hardened. And the Holy Spirit testifies to those who have Him of these things. And our hearts go out to them because they don't, yet they think they do. But more than that, we have no idea who is reading and will not post, and how the Lord is working in their hearts.