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To: af_vet_1981

“Who are the Apostles of the Reformation”
You know John, Peter, Luke, Mark, Paul, and their/our Leader Jesus Christ. Try reading their writings and you will realize how much of a boondoggle you have fell for.

“In which year, decade, or century do you assert the RCC fell into sin and what one holy catholic apostolic church do you think replaced it ?”

From the beginning and it will get way worst in the very near future.
Revelation 2:18-29

It is often claimed the Mary was heralded by the Patristics as a woman full of grace, perhaps sinless, and deserving our veneration above other departed saints as the Mother of the Church. This is not the case. While I do freely admit that the word Patristic can be used to cover a variety of ages, I prefer to use it to the pre-nicaean leaders of the church. Let us start with them, and we can move on from there.

In the Apostolic Fathers, as the first century leaders are often called, one sees little to no mention of Mary at all. Clement of Rome leaves her out of his epistle completely. This is a glaring omission for ‘Mary full of grace’ since Clement’s entire letter is about submission, faith, and peace. Clement uses as examples of Christian living Paul, Peter, Moses, Abraham, David, and several martyrs in addition to Jesus Christ. Beyond that he even uses a few women as examples. Rahab gets the most ink as a wonderful example of faith, two women killed by Nero are mentioned, Esther get a paragraph, as does Judith from the Apocrypha. But no Mary. First century writers seem to view Mary as a good believer, but nothing more, much like Protestants today.

Second century writers turn up the first exaltation references to Mary, but even these are over stated. Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, and Tertullian all try to draw Mary as the anti-type of Eve as Jesus was of Adam. This leads to some grandiose statements about Mary, but the ancient mind often thought more typologically and allegorically then we do today. These men did not have any allusions about Mary being above sin (original or actual). In fact Irenaeus condemns Mary as a sinner for her role in the Wedding of Cana arguing that Jesus rebukes her for her presumptuous pride. Tertullian along with other second century leaders like Origen and later writers like Basil the Great and Chrysostom (4th century) all ascribe to Mary the sins of maternal vanity, anxiety, and doubt and state that the ‘sword’ that pierces Mary’s soul in Luke 2:35 are these sins. Hardly a high view of Mary despite their typological attempts.

“You do assemble regularly in a faith community, correct”

You always do this you really need to get more deflection questions, lol.

Just as the RCC isn’t Scriptural neither is OSAS.


785 posted on 08/23/2015 7:42:48 PM PDT by mrobisr
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To: mrobisr
“Who are the Apostles of the Reformation” You know John, Peter, Luke, Mark, Paul, and their/our Leader Jesus Christ. Try reading their writings and you will realize how much of a boondoggle you have fell for.

False; there are no apostles of the Protestant re-formation of the Christian religion in the image of Luthet, Calvin, Xeingli, and Henry VIII.

Your testimony is shown to be historically false and therefore unreliable.

813 posted on 08/24/2015 5:06:27 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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