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To: livius
Yes I read your post: However, this is an end-run around the whole thing in order to change doctrine

Then you follow it up with: without having to get into the messy question of the fact that you can’t change it. Not even if you’re the Pope.

Which is a contradiction. either He is changing it or he is not, If you believe that he is changing it then please tell me what doctrine he is changing.

33 posted on 09/08/2015 9:38:24 AM PDT by verga (I might as well be playng chess with pigeons.)
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To: verga
Livius' point is that Pope Francis is changing the doctrine of the indissolubility of marriage in practice without changing it formally. I agree. The same thing happened with the Eucharist. By allowing the tabernacle to be put in a "chapel" off to the side—clearly within the pope's authority—the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist was undermined, arguably to the point of changing it in practice, and with disastrous results for the faith of the people. But you'll never find a papal document stating that Christ is not really, substantially present in the Eucharist. Thus, there has no effect on the doctrine of infallibility. It's the same in this case.
36 posted on 09/08/2015 9:46:19 AM PDT by scouter (As for me and my household... We will serve the LORD.)
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To: verga

My point is that this is having the effect of changing the doctrine - without actually changing it, since he knows that he can’t.

Everybody expected something like this to be the “pastoral solution” that would come out of the Synod, but he has now completely eliminated any possibility of objection from orthodox cardinals and has simply turned annulment into defacto no-fault divorce.

This annulment “revision” process was started last year, but it was with a view to making it more authentic and not reducing it to a quickie divorce. The Pope just unilaterally did what he wanted to do, which was make it a quickie divorce.

The next big thing will be “gay marriage.” The German, Austrian and Swiss bishops are in favor of this (well, with the exception of Muller and a couple of others) and, frankly, I think that was what they wanted the so-called Synod to focus on all along. So brace yourself for that one.

I don’t think he can do that with an “executive order” (motu proprio) but he’ll find a way.


37 posted on 09/08/2015 9:47:55 AM PDT by livius
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