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Kim Davis: When Should Christians Engage in Civil Disobedience?
Christian Post ^ | 09/11/2015 | Frank Turek

Posted on 09/11/2015 8:11:17 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

Should Christians ever disobey their government? Some say no. But Kim Davis sides with Martin Luther King and thinks civil disobedience is justified.

Ms. Davis is the Rowan County Kentucky clerk who spent four days in jail for refusing to put her name on same sex marriage licenses. Claiming to be a new Christian, Ms. Davis is also a long-time Democrat.

In court last week, Judge David Bunning told Davis: "The court cannot condone the willful disobedience of its lawfully issued order." He said that "if you give people the opportunity to choose which orders they follow, that's what potentially causes problems."

Judge Bunning is absolutely right. This is the kind of chaos that results when people do not respect the law. But I'm not referring to Kim Davis — I'm referring to the United States Supreme Court.

As I've written before, and the multiple dissents state more eloquently, there is no justification in the Constitution for judicially imposing genderless marriage on every state in the union. Five unelected justices simply imposed their own law on 330 million people.

But does that justify civil disobedience? Where do you draw the line?

Certainly, there is a line somewhere. After all, we laud those behind the Underground Railroad who freed slaves and those who protected Jews in Nazi Germany.

While bad marriage laws are obviously not as serious, consider a more equivalent scenario: Suppose the Supreme Court decided to drop the age of consent in every state to twelve years old (a position Ruth Bader Ginsberg supported before she became a Supreme Court Justice). Would you think that Kim Davis should be forced to endorse the marriage of a 75 year-old man who brought a twelve year-old girl into her office? I hope you can see that there is a line and it's not far from Kim Davis.

Liberals believe in civil disobedience — when it suits their causes.

Despite chanting, "Do your job!" outside Kim Davis's office, liberals were rejoicing when San Francisco mayor Gavin Newsom ordered clerks to violate California law and issue marriage licenses to same sex couples in 2004. They certainly were not chanting "Do your job" outside of Attorney General Eric Holder's office when he told the states last year to ignore their own laws that defined marriage as the union of a man and a woman. And liberals were not asking a federal judge to throw President Obama in jail when he refused to do his job of defending the Defense of Marriage Act in Court.

So just ten minutes ago liberals believed that defying marriage laws was heroic! Now their blatant double standard is all too obvious — they laud civil disobedience when it's used to advance the religion of sex and denounce it when it's used to protect Christian or natural law beliefs.

But on what authority does one defy the government? One man who wanted a same-sex marriage license asked Kim Davis on "what authority" was she not issuing licenses. She cited God.

Yet, the question needs to be asked of both sides. By what authority did Newsom, Holder, Obama and other liberal politicians defy the law? They certainly weren't citing God or the Creator cited in our Declaration of Independence who gives us unalienable rights. But without an authority beyond man's law, there is no authority for their actions nor is there any objective standard to ground unalienable rights.

Without God, every right claim is merely a human opinion. At least Kim Davis, agree with her or not, is citing an authority beyond herself.

Civil disobedience has rich precedent in the United States. In fact, our country was founded on it largely to secure religious freedom. Civil disobedience also has precedent in the Bible. When Pharaoh ordered Hebrew midwives to murder all Hebrew boys, they disobeyed and even lied to the authorities (Exodus 1). And Daniel and his friends peacefully defied laws that contracted God's commands. Likewise, when the Jewish authorities told John and Peter to stop telling people the good news that Jesus paid for your sins and rose from the dead, they disobeyed saying that they would obey God rather than men (Acts 4).

Therefore, the principle for Christians is this: civil disobedience is necessary when a government compels you to sin or prevents you from doing something God commands you to do.

You don't disobey the government merely because it permits others to sin — only when it compels you to do so. Kim Davis thinks that line has been crossed.

It's actually not hard to avoid crossing the line. Both parties can be accommodated as Judge Bunning finally figured out when he released Davis Wednesday. In North Carolina, we passed a law to allow people like Kim Davis to opt out of endorsing relationships that violated their religious or moral beliefs. Since other government employees are more than happy to issue licenses, no one is inconvenienced or forced to violate conscience. We do this for far more serious issues than weddings. For example, even during a time of war when we draft people to defend the country, we allow for conscientious objectors to opt out. If we can allow exemptions for government employees involved in protecting the very existence of our nation, we can certainly allow exemptions for government employees involved in weddings!

Will the Kentucky legislature act when it returns in January to pass such a law? Unfortunately, I doubt the activists who are always demanding tolerance will tolerate such reasonableness. It seems that some people just can't live and let live. They will not rest until all opposition is crushed and everyone is forced to celebrate what they are doing.

If that's your position, I have a question for you: Why would you want anyone who disagrees with your wedding to have anything to do with it? Go to another clerk, another florist, another photographer. Why force people to violate their conscience when there are so many other people willing to help you and celebrate with you? After all, isn't this supposed to be a time when "love wins?"

Apparently not. For some liberals "love wins" as long as everyone agrees with them. Those that disagree will not like the kind of "love" some liberals dish out. Are the same people who are chanting "love wins" some of the same people who issued death threats to Kim Davis? It's certainly wasn't the Christians.

The truth is Kim Davis and other victims of "tolerance" don't want a holy war. Davis just doesn't want her signature on the license. She suggested other government officials sign, and Judge Bunning finally agreed. But a law needs to be passed to prevent future problems.

North Carolina has led the way. It remains to be seen if liberals in Kentucky will accept that way. If their recent history is a guide, I'm afraid they will demand that every knee bow and every tongue confess the dogma of their secular religion.

-- Frank Turek is the president of CrossExamined.org, coauthor of I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist, and the author of the new book Stealing from God: Why atheists need God to make their case.


TOPICS: Current Events; Evangelical Christian; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: civildisobedience; gaymarriage; kimdavis; samesexmarriage
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1 posted on 09/11/2015 8:11:17 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Civil disobedience is deliberately violating a law and accepting the legal consequences as a statement of moral outrage. Liberals absolutely never commit acts of civil disobedience because they absolutely never consider morality sufficient grounds for obedience. Only those who cherish morality are willing to risk their freedom and their safety by refusing to obey an immoral law.
Civil disobedience never refuses to accept punishment. It is the very act of accepting punishment that gives civil disobience its moral authority.


2 posted on 09/11/2015 8:21:06 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
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To: SeekAndFind

I absolutely support Kim Davis and what she did, I just hope that if she has not already, she will leave the anti Christian Democrat party.

I understand she has only been a Christian 4+ years, so perhaps she is only Democrat as far as her job is concerned?

It would be a shame after all her good works for God/Christ to then go back to voting Democrat and voting against the things of God.

Yes I understand the GOP is not perfect, but still they are generally not responsible for abortion gay marriage and the removal of God/Christ from classroom/public square.

This is solely the result of liberal Democrat appointed Judges, with the exception of the Republican appointed mistakes, keep in mind it was the Democrats that forced Republican Presidents to pick people with blank slates and cross fingers.

So the term “Christian Democrat” is still a oxymoron with few exceptions


3 posted on 09/11/2015 8:23:45 AM PDT by Chauncey Uppercrust (Ted Cruz or lose, or Trump with clearer statements on were he stands on Christian social issues)
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To: SeekAndFind
Kim Davis: When Should Christians Engage in Civil Disobedience?

Never.

Because we are intolerant right-wingnut bigots and racists.

4 posted on 09/11/2015 8:25:03 AM PDT by Old Sarge (I prep because DHS and FEMA told me it was a good idea...)
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To: Old Sarge
Americans will not stand with SODOMITES !

Radical Islamist" dictates from the Oval Office's ILLEGAL ALIEN IN CHIEF and his IRANIAN SPY ?

Take these GREAT WORDS with you.
Put them on posters along with the faces that said them.


Let us remember WHERE we came from.

And let us NOT FORGET THESE GREAT MEN and WHAT they SAID !
5 posted on 09/11/2015 8:28:14 AM PDT by Yosemitest (It's SIMPLE ! ... Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: SeekAndFind
I heard a very pointed sermon on just this subject recently regarding the difference between Submission and Obedience.
The gist of it was that, as Christians, we are to submit to authority, but not necessarily be obedient.

Here's a perfect example:

"Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to him, “King Nebuchadnezzar,
we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter.
If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it,
and he will deliver us from Your Majesty’s hand. But even if he does not,
we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods
or worship the image of gold you have set up.” - Daniel 3:16-19

These three men were submissive to the king and even referred to him as "Your Majesty".
But, they would not dishonor God by worshiping the king or his gods.

Kim Davis modeled this for us. She was submissive to the authority of the Court,
but would not obey. She willingly went to the punishment meted out.

6 posted on 09/11/2015 8:29:12 AM PDT by Dr. Thorne (The night is far spent, the day is at hand.- Romans 13:12)
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To: Louis Foxwell
Specifly , what Federal law did she violate ?
The U.S. Supreme Court can only render an opinion , an interpretation of Law.
What Federally legislated law did she violate ?
7 posted on 09/11/2015 8:33:57 AM PDT by Tilted Irish Kilt (He/ She who plants a seed, has faith , .. and believes in God !)
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To: SeekAndFind

Whenever a judge orders you to violate law.


8 posted on 09/11/2015 8:35:28 AM PDT by Ray76 (Mitch McConnell - leader of the Death To America Caucus)
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To: Dr. Thorne

What Mrs. Davis did was commendable, and I think that the Lord is pleased.

I wonder what should be done if (and I hope this never happens) some other clerk or government worker takes a stand, but instead of being called names or being threatened, some unhinged screaming fruitbat with a gun decides to take matters into their own hands and shoots them?

Remember...Mrs. Davis also got death threats.


9 posted on 09/11/2015 8:36:17 AM PDT by hoagy62 (Only one solution left.....)
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To: SeekAndFind
Trump, Kasich, Christie, Fiorina, and Jeb all agree. Never. They should always obey the dictates of 5 tyrants no matter how evil because it's the law of the land. Ben Carson doesn't know.
10 posted on 09/11/2015 8:37:05 AM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: Louis Foxwell

and what exactly are we supposed to do? We’ve offered our left cheek so many effing times, it’s turned black. If you think we’re supposed to be meek little lambs then you’re mistaken. and quit making us into a bunch of p*ssies..


11 posted on 09/11/2015 8:39:53 AM PDT by max americana (fired liberals in our company last election, and I laughed while they cried (true story))
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To: Yosemitest
I'd like to join Commander Riker in applauding your most excellent post:


12 posted on 09/11/2015 8:41:16 AM PDT by Old Sarge (I prep because DHS and FEMA told me it was a good idea...)
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To: Old Sarge
What can I say?
Thank you.
13 posted on 09/11/2015 8:44:54 AM PDT by Yosemitest (It's SIMPLE ! ... Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: Louis Foxwell; All

There is something about all of this that has me wondering and that “something” is this. The Supreme Court has OKed same sex marriage. When same sex partners engage in sex, is it still called sodomy? And, if so, should the Supreme Court now pronounce sodomy legal? Just wondering and wondering what the public reaction might be.


14 posted on 09/11/2015 8:47:44 AM PDT by davisfh
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To: SeekAndFind

This isn’t rocket science.

Matthew 22:20-22King James Version (KJV)

20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

21 They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.

22 When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.

When the government says to you, “Yeah, we know it wasn’t part of your job description when you ran for office/hired on, but we want you to marry homosexuals and kill unborn children ... “ you say, “Sorry, I’m going to have to take my chances disappointing you, Caesar.”


15 posted on 09/11/2015 8:52:59 AM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives.)
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To: SeekAndFind
For some liberals "love wins" as long as everyone agrees with them. Those that disagree will not like the kind of "love" some liberals dish out. Are the same people who are chanting "love wins" some of the same people who issued death threats to Kim Davis? It's certainly wasn't the Christians.

The pro-homos are mentally and emotionally disturbed conformists.

16 posted on 09/11/2015 8:53:26 AM PDT by Vision Thing ("Community Organizer" is a shorter way of saying "Commie Unity Organizer".)
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To: tumblindice

PS And Kim Davis managed a `two-fer’: she showed us how it is done, and, managed to deal with Huckleberry.


17 posted on 09/11/2015 9:02:51 AM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s. Render unto God that which is God’s. Marriage does not belong to Caesar.


18 posted on 09/11/2015 9:04:37 AM PDT by dware (Trump/Cruz 2016, or get ready for 8 more dummycrat years)
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To: davisfh

Sodomy laws, like marriage laws, are an exclusive prerogative if the states. SCOTUS has wandered in where it clearly does not belong. Acceptance of their abrogation of state authority should not sit well with constitutionally committed people. But then, nothing much seems to get conservative dander up.


19 posted on 09/11/2015 9:18:27 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
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To: SeekAndFind

in this country, We the People are at minimum a co-equal actor in our gov’t, and some like me would argue from first principles that—since We the People are the source of all authority in this country, as designed by the founders—We the People bear the most responsiblity for our gov’t’s rule.

thus, i would argue, it is the duty of the People, as individual citizens in the body politic, to meet unlawful or extralawful actions by our gov’t with lawful and God fearing resistance.


20 posted on 09/11/2015 9:27:52 AM PDT by dadfly
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