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To: unlearner
There are no signs to create an anticipation of the day or hour of The coming of the4 bridegroom for the bridal aprty, to go back tot he Father's House. John 14 should help you dispel the notion that the Rapture will be a part of the Great Tribulation. It will precede the Tribulation, but the abomination that causes desolation will usher the Great Trib portion of 3 1/2 years to the end. While the Tribulation unfolds on earth, those who are the bridal party, the bride and bridesmaids, will be in Heaven for the Bema Judgment seat and rewards, then the wedding and the return after all that with Jesus to set foot on the earth and clean up the place.

If the Rapture does not happen until midway in Daniel's seventieth week, the Church will be in opposition to the Jewish evangelists, since it has been the job of the Church during this pause in the weeks of Daniel to evangelize humankind. Jesus assured His disciples on the Upper Room occasion that He was going to prepare a place for them in His Father's House and would come to get them so that they could be THERE with Him, not here, THERE >

129 posted on 09/14/2015 7:08:55 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Is it really all relative, Mister Einstein?)
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To: MHGinTN

mark


130 posted on 09/14/2015 7:44:29 PM PDT by Cvengr ( Adversity in life & death is inevitable; Stress is optional through faith in Christ.)
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To: MHGinTN

Like I said before, the pre-trib position has an internal logic and consistency but I challenge you to support your assertions from scripture. I don’t mean that as an insult. If you can support them I will change my view. I have looked for the support and cannot find it. I do not know the Bible or its meaning perfectly, so it could be there and I have missed it, but I cannot accept it otherwise.

“There are no signs to create an anticipation of the day or hour of the coming of the bridegroom for the bridal party, to go back tot he Father’s House.”

The Olivet discourse which contains the seven signs I posted earlier is part of a larger narrative that includes Matthew 25 in which we are told of how Christ’s return will be like a groom arriving to pick up the bride. Also, this verse is significant:

Matthew 24:36
But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only

Two Hebrew idioms are referenced. Not knowing the day nor hour refers to the feast of trumpets. It is the one feast out of the seven prescribed feasts which begins on a new moon and required two witnesses to testify to seeing the new moon. Other feasts were planned for by the calendar, but this feast required flexibility because no one knew for sure the exact hour and day it would begin. But they did know approximately. The other idiom referenced is that a Jewish groom did not know exactly when the wedding would begin because his father had to inspect the home he prepared and decide it was ready. So the groom would reply that he did not know when the wedding would begin, only his father knew.

“the Church will be in opposition to the Jewish evangelists, since it has been the job of the Church during this pause in the weeks of Daniel to evangelize humankind”

The Jewish evangelists before the rapture are part of the church, so there is no opposition. Israel will repent when she sees Christ at the rapture.

Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.

Compare with this:

Revelation 1:7
Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

The 144,000 Israelites are sealed after the Great Tribulation ends and the Day of the Lord begins. This is in Revelation 7. Christ returns, the Church is raptured out, Israel repents (feast of trumpets is followed immediately by feast of atonement which is a time of repentance). We see an uncountable multitude from all nations coming out of the Great Tribulation. How do they come out? There is no indication they die. But suddenly they are in God’s presence.

“[Jesus] was going to prepare a place for them [the disciples] in His Father’s House and would come to get them so that they could be THERE with Him, not here, THERE”

This will happen beginning with the events of Revelation 7.

It is after the seven signs but before the end / day of wrath.

Try to support each of your points with specific Bible passages. I think you will find that how you interpret them will begin to contradict itself.

For example, where does the Bible support a secret rapture?

Or does second Thessalonians 1 refer to the rapture of the church or Christ’s coming at a later time? If later, then how is it that this is when the believers will enter into rest? If it is the rapture, how is it that He will come with angels executing fiery judgment?

If you compare the Olivet discourse to Revelation 6-8, you will see that there will be signs in the sky, Christ will return and take His elect who survive the Great Tribulation, then the angels will begin to pour out judgments of fire on the earth just as God did to Sodom after Lot’s family was taken out by the angels.

My timeline is taken straight from the pages of scripture. Take a look at the Olivet discourse and the seven signs. Now try to reconcile this with Revelation. There is one and only one possible alignment of these passages. The signs in the heavens (sixth seal) happen immediately after the Great Tribulation (fifth seal). There is given in these four passages a sequence of events unique in human history. They must refer to the same events. When does Christ return? Immediately after the heavenly signs. Where in the narrative of Revelation does this match and correspond? The end of Revelation 6. Then we see tribes of Israel sealed, sudden appearance of uncountable believers before God, and then angels pour out fiery judgments.


132 posted on 09/14/2015 8:37:58 PM PDT by unlearner (RIP America, 7/4/1776 - 6/26/2015, "Only God can judge us now." - Claus Von Stauffenberg / Valkyrie)
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