If I understand correctly you're basing your defense of CCC 841 on islamic belief in the God of Abraham. In other words; they
say they worship the God of Abraham, we
do worship the God of Abraham, therefore we're worshiping the same God.
Islam is a mixture of Christian heresy and paganism. I think that our non-Catholic brethren here are firmly convinced that there's too much paganism in the heresy for their god to be God. I agree with them.
I realize I'm going out on a limb in disagreeing with the CCC but our differences with islam go beyond whether mohammed was a prophet (we all agree he wasn't). Islam and Christendom disagree on the very nature of God Himself.
I think the argument that tries to include islam in the family of Abrahamic religion misses the point that the Hebrew religion is not a man-made religion, it is founded by God. Islam was not. That alone should have been the red flag that Cardinal Schönborn apparently missed when he was compiling and editing the CCC for pope St. JPII.
- If I understand correctly you're basing your defense of CCC 841 on islamic belief in the God of Abraham. In other words; they say they worship the God of Abraham, we do worship the God of Abraham, therefore we're worshiping the same God.
- Islam is a mixture of Christian heresy and paganism. I think that our non-Catholic brethren here are firmly convinced that there's too much paganism in the heresy for their god to be God. I agree with them.
- I realize I'm going out on a limb in disagreeing with the CCC but our differences with islam go beyond whether mohammed was a prophet (we all agree he wasn't). Islam and Christendom disagree on the very nature of God Himself.
- I think the argument that tries to include islam in the family of Abrahamic religion misses the point that the Hebrew religion is not a man-made religion, it is founded by God. Islam was not. That alone should have been the red flag that Cardinal Schönborn apparently missed when he was compiling and editing the CCC for pope St. JPII.
Islam is not mentioned. "The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330" - Some were/are confused by CCC 839-841 and I tried to help them get past the stumbling blocks. CCC 841 is not about Islam; it is about Moslems. Can you see the difference ? CCC 841 mentions the people, the profession to hold the faith of Abraham, but there is no endorsement from God on their religion, as you see for the Jews.
- The stumbling block I see is thinking about Islam rather than the Moslems. The CCC does not mention Islam.
- Which is probably why Islam is not mentioned but the Moslems are
- That key distinction is right in the text, and this is where the Catechism differentiates, not only the Jewish faith from the other religion that is not named, but from all other religions so that Catholics see the Jews as intrinsically related to us, elder brethren as it were.
"Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325 The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ",328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329
And to sum it all up :
842 The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race: All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331 843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332 844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them: Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.333 845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is "the world reconciled." She is that bark which "in the full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world." According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood.334
going out on a limb in disagreeing with the CCC but our differences with islam go beyond whether mohammed was a prophet (we all agree he wasn't). Islam and Christendom disagree on the very CCC841 is not about Islam, read it again. It is about nonChristians, other than the Jews, who look to the one Creator, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacov. The Moslems, who comprise one fourth of the human beings on this planet, are chief (most numerous/prominent) among this classification. They, like Samaritans, call upon the Gid of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, accept the Bible as holy, honor all the Patriarchs and Matriarchs, do not insult blessed Mary, call Jesus a holy prophet, messenger, and "the Messiah." However, they are nonChristian.