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To: paladinan

Note the clear, unqualified assurance given in Ephesians 2:8-9. This, alone, is all I need to know regarding Salvation. Can anyone improve on it?
“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast”.

Tell me why I need a pope, and all that fine embroidery and gold. Why should a presumptive human head of the church of Christ on earth undertake to emulate the materialistic trappings of earthly princes of the middle ages?


128 posted on 11/02/2015 1:29:39 PM PST by Elsiejay (qeustion of qualificatioin)
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To: Elsiejay
Note the clear, unqualified assurance given in Ephesians 2:8-9. This, alone, is all I need to know regarding Salvation. Can anyone improve on it? “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast”.

And note the clear, unqualified qualifier to that passage, if you look elsewhere in the Scriptures:

"But he who endures to the end will be saved." (-Jesus, in Matthew 10:22)

"But he who endures to the end will be saved." (-Jesus, again, in Matthew 24:13)

Many people might take the words of Jesus to be important... and especially so, if He says the same thing twice. This is why the Bible needs to be read in its entirety, and not simply cherry-picked.

Tell me why I need a pope, and all that fine embroidery and gold.

The two have nothing in particular to do with each other; the "fine embroidery and gold" is for the sake of giving honor to God during Sacred Worship; it's not for the sake of the pope, himself (who wears very plain clothes, otherwise).

As to the most important part of your question: we need a pope because Christ saw fit to give us one. We are humans (with bodies), not angels... and we need material things in our families (physical mother and father and other relatives), our daily lives (eating and drinking and resting on beds, etc.), and our worship (beautiful sights, sounds, things to touch, smells, etc.--hence the holy water, the bread and wine, the incense, the bells, the beautiful vestments and decorations and artwork, etc.). To think otherwise is to fall into the heresy of iconoclasm (which the Muslims embrace wholeheartedly, by the way...), among other things. In addition to the Shepherd in Heaven, we need a "viceroy shepherd" with a physical voice, a physical face, etc., who is protected by God from error when pronouncing solemnly on Divine Revelation. Any alternative leaves an "every man for himself" approach to the Faith... as the thousands of splinters of contradictory and squabbling and mutually-condemning Protestant denominations shows, quite clearly.

Why should a presumptive human head of the church of Christ on earth undertake to emulate the materialistic trappings of earthly princes of the middle ages?

You're missing the point completely. Let me quote St. Jean-Marie Vianney, a holy French priest from the 1800's (known as the "Cure' of Ars"--the Pastor of the parish at Ars, France): "The best for God; the worst for me." The holy Cure' purchased and wore the most beautiful and elaborate vestments he could find, for Holy Mass--but outside of that, he wore such a threadbare and scruffy cassock that people on the street who didn't know him were shocked (and took him for a beggar, at least once). The Pope follows the same paradigm.

Honestly... I don't know what possesses some people to insist that "authenticity and humility" must necessary result in ugly and threadbare places of worship, bereft of all ornamentation. It seems a rather cheap way to show praise to God, IMHO.

P.S. I wanted to put the proper strong accent on the final "e" in "Cure'", but the FR text editor is mangling special symbols, at the moment.

132 posted on 11/03/2015 8:10:13 AM PST by paladinan (Rule #1: There is a God. Rule #2: It isn't you.)
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