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To: af_vet_1981
Thank you for confirming in a straightforward manner that a "brother" or "sister" of Messiah Jesus need not be a physical descendant of blessed Miriam/Mary.

No problem.  But as pointed out, the mere possibility that "adelphos" can be used as a metaphor does not defeat a non-metaphorical usage of the term where appropriate. Indeed, honesty would require us to render "adelphos" as "physical sibling" where the context warrants it, such as the passages clearly referring to Jesus' brothers and sisters as ordinary biological family. Else we could be accused of distorting the word of God. Honest translation is paramount.

I understand the difference in interpretations; one relies on a continual reappraisal of discovered manuscripts, the study of unused or modified languages, and each individual's interpretation of such in the light of their own faith and intellect; continuously reforming and refining the faith once delivered to the saints, grasping to finally discover the real and final truth.


I honestly don't think you do understand our position.  I do not recall when you have represented it in a manner we would recognize as truly our view.  Our premise is rather more simple than what you have suggested.  We take God at His word.  Liberal and unbelieving theologians of all denominations reject that premise, and do not accept the accessibility of divine truth by individual believers, but relegate it to the domain of masters and experts.  But we say God uses His word to reach even the simplest believing soul, no barriers, because His will and His word and His Spirit form a team that cannot be defeated in getting divine truth to every soul that needs it.  You cannot leave out this supernatural dimension to our belief without seriously misrepresenting our view.

As for reforming, "reform" assumes that at one point the form was good, but now needs to re-form, to get back to what once was true.  This is not the presumption you seem to state, that the true truth is always just around the corner of the next discovery.  Can we learn new things? I certainly hope so.  Even Paul indicates that our knowledge now is not what it will be when we reach glory. It is only partial.  But it is sufficient for the purpose at hand, to have faith in Christ and live Godly lives.

As for the ability to defend the faith against those who would contradict it, believers of every historical period have had their work cut out for them.  Athenasius repelled the Arians with the full armada of Scriptural truth. We learned from him (and others) how to do that.  That's a good thing.  When a novel heresy comes along, we may have to work at finding the right resources in Scripture to defeat it.  But God is faithful, and has given us His word for instruction in righteousness and reproving error.  The tools to defeat error are all there. I see no problem in seeking God's help in learning how to use them.

Peace,

SR



400 posted on 11/11/2015 10:30:08 AM PST by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: Springfield Reformer
But as pointed out, the mere possibility that "adelphos" can be used as a metaphor does not defeat a non-metaphorical usage of the term where appropriate.

I do not concede a metaphorical only translation in lieu of the same mother. I am of the Hebrew perspective and see Ach/Achim. I also allow the Greek Orthodox view since it arrives in the same kingdom, so to speak. I eschew the modern view prevalent in the 19th Century that these brothers and sisters were physical children of Mary, as well as the logically connected modern view that since Jesus was a rabbi he must have married and had children of his own so as to be accepted, and not scandalized, is his generation which is the same argument your brothers and sisters use on this forum with respect to Mary and Joseph having marital relations.

426 posted on 11/11/2015 6:51:30 PM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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