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To: cookcounty
Sorry for botching the italics in 399:

""According to non-biblical literature, Mary grew up in the Temple of Jerusalem until she hit puberty. There, she was inspired by God to take a vow of perpetual virginity." Sounds like very sloppy "scholarship."

1) Nobody "grew up" in the Temple, especially not a female child, to place Mary there conflicts with the Gospel, she lived a very long way, 100 miles, on foot, in Nazareth and was betrothed to Joseph, which means she was under contract to lose her virginity.

2) the "ideal" of "perpetual virginity" is an utterly pagan concept, not supported in any way by Scripture and utterly foreign to Mary's Jewish culture.

3) The Gospels (and the Book of the Acts of the Apostles) clearly say that Jesus had brothers, including James the head of the church at Jerusalem.

4) Nothing in Scripture remotely suggests that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus. Nor do the early church fathers suggest any such thing. And it is unlikely they would ignore such a doctrine which, for the heavily Jewish early church, would have been quite controversial, even shocking. Their culture dictated that the most honored position for a woman was to be legally joined to a man physically and become a mother of children, preferably many of them.

To make these weak theories of Mary's "perpetual virginity" so important in the Catholic church was a big mistake, the result of the dangerous tendency to syncretism that weakens the church and obscures the Gospel with worthless distractions.

Mary is of course worthy of honor: She bore the Savior, she was joined to faithful Joseph, with him became the mother of children, and was obviously good at it. Good on you, Mary.

Let me just add: "Mary" is not mentioned in the prayer. "Theotakos" is the term, and I am much aware that this term at some point became associated with Mary. But what, at this point in history, necessitates "Mary?" The term refers to a person, obviously, but what in the context suggests Mary? Is it not more likely a reference to Christ himself? It is conjoined to the attributes of God, and Mary is not God. Or at least has not yet been promoted to such by the synods, though they clearly have the power to decree her so. The Quadrinity may yet be enshrined, there is a clear trend in ever-changing and ever-changeable Roman theology logically leading eventually to that end.

401 posted on 11/11/2015 10:52:45 AM PST by cookcounty ("I was a Democrat until I learned to count" --Maine Gov. Paul LePage)
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To: cookcounty
The Prayer is translated:

Beneath your compassion we take refuge, Theotokos!
Our prayers do not despise in necessities,
but from danger deliver us,
only pure,
only blessed one.

"only". Pretty airtight exclusive term. If this prayer speaks to Mary, where does it leave her heretofore pure and blessed Son, referred to in prophecy as the "Blessed One"? Obvious demotion of the Savior. Not ok.

It's Mary who delivers us from danger?

Theologians make errors. Even Catholic ones.

403 posted on 11/11/2015 11:12:36 AM PST by cookcounty ("I was a Democrat until I learned to count" --Maine Gov. Paul LePage)
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