Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: metmom

So you can’t say “Mary mother of Jesus Christ Our Lord and God” then?


462 posted on 04/13/2016 6:19:22 PM PDT by Legatus (I think, therefore you're out of your mind)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 460 | View Replies ]


To: Legatus

The correct terminology is *Mary, mother of Jesus* and it’s about identifying MARY ***NOT*** Jesus.


464 posted on 04/13/2016 6:23:01 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 462 | View Replies ]

To: Legatus; imardmd1; metmom; boatbums; MHGinTN; Elsie
So you can’t say “Mary mother of Jesus Christ Our Lord and God” then?

Since the Holy Spirit did not we are on solid ground. While as theologically defined statement ""mother of God" might be used, as with "grandmother of God" going all the way back to Eve, this is not the language of Scripture, and its uncritical use as formal title most naturally conveys ontological oneness, yet Mary provided nothing to Christ's Divinity, and owes her very existence to Him.

The words of Ratzinger as concerns the title of “Co-redemptrix” applies here as concerns what Scripture expresses, though Ratzinger will not apply it to "Mother of God."

the formula “Co-redemptrix” departs to too great an extent from the language of Scripture and of the Fathers and therefore gives rise to misunderstandings”

“Everything comes from Him [Christ], as the Letter to the Ephesians and the Letter to the Colossians, in particular, tell us; Mary, too, is everything she is through Him. The word “Co-redemptrix” would obscure this origin. A correct intention being expressed in the wrong way. (God and the world: believing and living in our time, by Pope Benedict XVI, Peter Seewald, Ignatius Press, San Francisco, 2000, p. 306

Moreover, Catholic use of Mother of God is part of the unScriptural, blasphemous (based on what we see as constituting that in Scripture) hyper-hyper exaltation of the fabricated Mary of Scripture, a "Christianized" version of the pagan Queen of Heaven*," in contrast to the humble, virtuous, Spirit-filled and God-exalting honorable Mary of Scripture. And who, unlike Catholics, only prayed to God, and never sought devotion to herself, nor is shown being an object of devotion in the life of the church (being manifestly absent after Acts 1)

Technical theological statements can have their place, but the Holy Spirit does not engage in giving grand titles to men, "For I know not to give flattering titles; in so doing my maker would soon take me away," (Job 32:22) and is careful to guard the unique honor of God. Thus when speaking of Israel bringing forth Christ, the Spirit adds in " Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. (Romans 9:5)

Thus we see the manner in which Israel as a corporate entity begat Christ being included as a qualification, and with God being glorified, and (I think) inferring the Divinity of Christ.

Likewise in defining David as the father of the Messiah. If Mary is the Mother of Christ due to the incarnation, and (as supposed) passing on DNA as a descendant of David, then Christ is the Son of David, who is technically His father "as concerning the flesh." But the real issue is that of His Divinity, and thus the Lord rebuked the normal connotation of this saying,

And answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the Son of David? For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly. (Mark 12:35-37)

This does not deny that in a qualified sense Christ is the Son of David "as concerning the flesh," and thus that Mary is the mother of Christ, but Divinity is the issue here. Thus rather than doing what Catholics do, and exalting instruments of grace far above that which is written, and obscuring the vast distinction in honor btwn the creature and the Creator by incessant unqualified language that otherwise denotes ontological oneness, then Lord is careful to emphasize that distinction by pointing out that David called Him "Lord, a word which can simply mean "master" (Mt. 18:26) but also can refer to Divinity, but in this context denotes the latter.

This distinction is actually seen in the only texts which Catholics can quote as closely referring to Mary being called the mother of God: "And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43) For note what follows:

And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. (Luke 1:46-47)

In this magnificent expression of worship Mary exalts God, referring to Him least 17 times in 10 verses, and renders herself a mere recipient of the grace of God, whose "mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation." (Luke 1:50)

And which stands in stark contrast to what is actually worship of Mary, giving such praise and adulation to her that only God is shown being the recipient of, including ascribing to them attributes which are only ascribed to God, and which is blasphemous and a form of worship.

As often said,

One would have a hard time in Bible times explaining kneeling before a statue and praising the entity it represented in the unseen world, beseeching such for Heavenly help, and making offerings to them, and giving glory and titles and ascribing attributes to such which are never given in Scripture to created beings (except to false gods), including having the uniquely Divine power glory to hear and respond to virtually infinite numbers of prayers individually addressed to them

Which manner of adulation would constitute worship in Scripture, yet Catholics imagine that by playing word games then they can avoid crossing the invisible line between mere "veneration" and worship.

Moses, put down those rocks! I was only engaging in hyper dulia, not adoring her. Can't you tell the difference?

Cathsshould only do (and I should do more of) what Mary and every believer in Scripture did in praying to Heaven, which was to pray directly to the Lord, not saintly secretaries. But they must truly become born again for that.

Instead, Caths basically say,

As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee. But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes... (Jeremiah 44:16-17)

Note that many Catholic Marian attributions much parallel even that of Christ:

For in the the Catholic quest to almost deify Mary, it is taught by Catholics*,


530 posted on 04/14/2016 6:42:36 AM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 462 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson