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To: aimhigh; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer; kinsman redeemer; BlueDragon; metmom; boatbums; ...
What a poor article. the author is judging the truthfulness of biblical doctrine by frauds. Frauds have always existed in the church. It would be easy for an athiest to write a mirror article saying Christ is a myth because of same frauds.

You mean like John MacArthur's broad brush,

"there are people within that movement that preach the gospel, that believe in the authority of Scripture, that want to honor the Lord, that pursue Godly living and sanctification...so we need to say that we don't lump everybody into that movement at the same degree of error. But the movement itself is fraught with error." "..you have the birth of the charismatic movement., its theology is both heterodox and heretical...everything is defined by experience..and therefore has a weak view of Scripture, that's the charismatic movement."

In 1967 a bunch of Jesus freak people in the beach areas of Southern California go to Calvary Chapel..and for the first time, the church, that i know of in history, the church lets the very defined subculture dictate what it will be. Out go the ties, out go the hymns, out go all the normal and formal things...and the hippie culture, you know, kids coming out of drugs, communal living, free sex, and all that kind of casual thing, and that's a charismatic church, that's a four-square church. That's were the movement becomes what we know as Calvary Chapel." "The first Calvary Chapel was essentially the church saying well let the culture tell us what we need to be." The charismatic movement has developed...its comfortable in Roman Catholicism, its comfortable in dead denominationalism...I thinks its a false form of Christianity." - John MacArthur "What has happened after the 'Strange Fire' Conference;" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYulTGso804

The writer of hipandthigh, Fred Butler, a graduate of MacArthur "Master’s Seminary," is condemning those whose "primary claim was to say the Strange Fire participants wrongly attributed the bizarre, wild-eyed antics and paranormal stories witnessed at a typical health and wealth style mega-church, to [while ignoring] faithful continuationists who never display any of that ridiculous conduct or claim any of those types of otherworldly experiences," asserting "I don’t see anything representing [among the protests] the balanced, non-crack-pot continuationist. Say for instance, Wayne Grudem, or even Michael Brown," even though he reviewed the 400 page book by Brown (who defends the continuationists too much) written in response to "Strange Fire." And thus states, "continuationism maligns the doctrine of God, specifically the work of the Holy Spirit."

As typically represented he is correct, as is your argument that judging the truthfulness of biblical doctrine by frauds is itself fraudulent. Fraud predominates in continuationism, yet Pentecostalism testifies overall being among most committed to holiness and basic doctrines and evangelicalism*, and are more unified in basic beliefs than basically cessationist denominations, and in which liberalism and "sterility" is more likely to be the reality.

The rampant fraud in continuationism is inexcusable, as is the liberalism and overall spiritual deadness among those who claim to be Protestant and deny the perpetuity of personal supernatural gifts, and Caths (ignoring the liberalism and variegated beliefs in Catholicism) invoke the divisions in both as evidence that Protestantism is itself heretical, but as with the rejection of continuationism as a whole, this is throwing the baby ouyt with the bathwater.

Too often it is the pot that boils over that is seen as the evil, versus the pot that hardly simmers. Missing btwn the extremes is an objective examination of the issue of whether personal supernatural gifts are available today, which I believe Scripture supports, but not the aberrations. The devil certainly does not subscribe to cessationism any more than when his magicians duplicated the first 3 miracles of Moses. What is needed is more genuine evidences of the resurrection power of Christ, not only in the profound transformative effects of true regeneration, but in other miracles (which have strong testimonies, thanks to be God), including via personal spiritual gifts.

*


18 posted on 04/22/2016 11:06:09 AM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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To: daniel1212
People are always asking for one more miracle from God. History is filled with them but we quickly forget. Mankind soon forgot the flooding of the world and built the Tower of Babel as a monument to themselves. Pharaoh was not persuaded when God caused the plagues of Egypt. God tells us to remember what He did at the Red Sea but how many of us look back at that miracle? The Pharisees ask Christ to perform a miracle before them. He told them they wouldn't believe the miracle even if God raised someone from the dead. God did just that with Christ and they still didn't believe and took effort to hide the miracle.

As soon as a miracle is over we're asking God for the next one. Miracles are overrated. An adulteress generation seeks after miracles. Instead we are told to simply trust God's Word. God has a plan for our welfare and not for evil, to give us a future and a hope. We should trust His plan.

20 posted on 04/22/2016 1:27:12 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: daniel1212
73% (highest) of Pentecostal/Foursquare believers strongly affirm that Christ was sinless on earth, with Catholics, Lutherans and Methodists being tied at 33%, and the lowest being among Episcopalians with just 28% http://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/5-barna-update/53

WHAT??!!??

Why isn't this 100% in each group?

Are people REALLY this nuts??

22 posted on 04/22/2016 4:25:28 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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