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To: ealgeone
Thanks for calling me disingenuous., It's always nice to get a personal comment impugning one's honesty when trying to engage in a civilized discussion.

The question at hand was whether one can say without doubt that a person is "worshiping": (by which we mean, offering adoration, in contrast to "venerating," offering high respect/honor)) when they bow, kneel, or genuflect. I have demonstrated that bowing does not necessarily mean adoring.

Biblically, just jotting down examples, it appears that bowing more often means veneration or honor or respect, than adoration. It as certainly understood that way in Biblical culture, depending on context. But you can count up the instances yourself.

Bowing (LINK)

21 posted on 04/27/2016 12:22:09 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Stone cold sober, as a matter of fact.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Disingenuous is not meant for you specifically. I’ve seen the same argument from Catholics on these forums and they just don’t hold water.


25 posted on 04/27/2016 2:16:16 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Mrs. Don-o
The question at hand was whether one can say without doubt that a person is "worshiping": (by which we mean, offering adoration, in contrast to "venerating," offering high respect/honor)) when they bow, kneel, or genuflect. I have demonstrated that bowing does not necessarily mean adoring.

Catholics bow to idols/statues of Mary.

Catholics pray to Mary while kneeling before these idols/statues.

Catholics call Mary Co-Redemtrix, Mediatrix and Advocate which is putting Mary on the same level as Christ Who the Word records is our ONLY Redeemer, Mediator and Advocate (Holy Spirit is also called Advocate).

Catholics believe apparitions claiming to be Mary have appeared and heed the advice given by these apparitions including:

wearing an article of clothing to guarantee salvation

building shrines in the apparitions honor

Catholics have given Mary titles not found in the Word including, but not limited to:

Queen of Heaven

Mother of God

Cause of our salvation

Most Holy

Most Pure

Queen of All Saints

Queen of Prophets

Queen of Apostles

Queen of Patriarchs

Refuge of Sinners

Of the known times the pope has spoken ex cathedra he has declared Mary to be Assumed into Heaven under the titles "Our Lady of Assumption" and "Queen Assumed into Heaven" though there is no evidence for this.

This is why Christians say catholics worship Mary.

28 posted on 04/27/2016 2:41:25 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Mrs. Don-o
It's always nice to get a personal comment impugning one's honesty when trying to engage in a civilized discussion.

I hear YA!


"One indeed is the universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved, in which the priest himself is the sacrifice, Jesus Christ, whose body and blood are truly contained in the sacrament of the altar under the species of bread and wine; the bread (changed) into His body by the divine power of transubstantiation, and the wine into the blood, so that to accomplish the mystery of unity we ourselves receive from His (nature) what He Himself received from ours."

--Pope Innocent III and Lateran Council IV (A.D. 1215)

 

109 posted on 04/28/2016 3:35:09 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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