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To: SGNA
Actually the Jansenists were not Catholic. While some viewed them as just puritanical, they separated themselves from the Church by their schism, heresy and attack on the liturgy.

To the contrary---while the five key teachings of Jansenism were ultimately defined as heresy by the church, it did in fact originate as a theological movement within the Catholic Church, associated with Cornelius Jansen, the bishop of Ypres. It gained significant popularity with the French Cistercian sisters as well as Catholic philosophers such as Pascal who criticized what they regarded as growing Pelagianism in the Church due to the influence of the Jesuits. They were gravely in error, but in practice they were every bit as Catholic as the Sedevacantists. Their error was in fact the same---they believed that they had the right to cast private but binding judgement regarding who in the Church was a heretic and who was not.

St Antoninus (1459) "In the case in which the pope would become a heretic, he would find himself, by that fact alone and without any other sentence, separated from the Church. A head separated from a body cannot, as long as it remains separated, be head of the same body from which it was cut off. A pope who would be separated from the Church by heresy, therefore, would by that very fact cease to be head of the Church. He could not be a heretic and remain pope, because since he is outside of the Church, he cannot possess the keys of the Church."

That's all true enough; but there's a bit of an asterisk there. Namely, that it is not for private individuals to determine whether or not the Pope is a material heretic, nor is it for them to decide to reject his office or declare his Papacy invalid. To quote John of Saint Thomas' summary of Saint Jerome's comments on this topic:

" St. Jerome---in saying that a heretic departs on his own from the Body of Christ---does not preclude the Church's judgment, especially in so grave a matter as is the deposition of a pope. He refers instead to the nature of that crime, which is such as to cut someone off from the Church on its own and without other censure in addition to it---yet only so long as it should be declared by the Church...So long as he has not become declared to us juridically as an infidel or heretic, be he ever so manifestly heretical according to private judgment, he remains as far as we are concerned a member of the Church and consequently its head. Judgment is required by the Church. It is only then that he ceases to be pope as far as we are concerned".

Again, you cannot unilaterally decide that the Pontiff is invalid based upon your own private judgement that he is heretic. That was the error of Bishop Jansen and the many Catholics he led into schism, and that is also manifestly the error of the Sedevacantists.

25 posted on 05/11/2016 12:56:27 AM PDT by Prince of Desmond
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To: Prince of Desmond; SGNA
Again, you cannot unilaterally decide that the Pontiff is invalid based upon your own private judgement that he is heretic. That was the error of Bishop Jansen and the many Catholics he led into schism, and that is also manifestly the error of the Sedevacantists.

Per Saint Bellarmine, Doctor of the Church:

The fifth opinion therefore is the true one. A pope who is a manifest heretic automatically (per se) ceases to be pope and head, just as he ceases automatically to be a Christian and a member of the Church. Wherefore, he can be judged and punished by the Church. This is the teaching of all the ancient Fathers who teach that manifest heretics immediately lose all jurisdiction.

So the loss of office happens first, ipso facto. Then the Church can judge and punish (of course with the prelates we have these days one has to wonder whether the "Church" will ever judge and punish).

Sedevacantists absolutely can morally judge what is evident. What they can not do is force their judgment on others and claim it as dogmatic fact until the Church has spoken.

Given the fact that this crisis is unprecedented in the history of the Church no Catholic should judge another's Catholicity when responding to it. In addition, no one can know for sure who is in error and who is not until the Church has spoken.

God will sort this out. In the mean time, Catholics need to do their best to stay true to the Catholic Faith as it was always taught. For some that means, not recognizing a non-Catholic as pope. Others it means recognizing a non-Catholic as pope, but not submitting to him in his liturgy, discipline and teachings, and for others it means following a non-Catholic as if he is still Catholic (and I'm sure I've missed a few other beliefs).

27 posted on 05/11/2016 2:33:54 AM PDT by piusv (The Spirit of Christ hasn't refrained from using separated churches as means of salvation:VII heresy)
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To: Prince of Desmond; BlatherNaut; piusv
These heretical vermin IMPOSTORS, who are posing as the supreme arbiters of the Faith - AND INFALLIBLE IN PUBLICLY AND SOLEMNLY TEACHING AND BINDING THE CHURCH - did not merely 'unclear' in not quite parsing correctly some lofty esoteric theological definition: THEY HAVE DENIED BASIC ELEMENTARY TRUTHS AND MORAL PRINCIPLES.

Bergoglio incredibly denying the Unity of God in the Holy Trinity! It does not get more basic to the Faith than this!

“So often [people ask]: ‘But do you believe?’: ‘Yes! Yes! ‘; ‘What do you believe in?’; ‘In God!’; ‘But what is God for you?’; ‘God, God’. But God does not exist: Do not be shocked! So God does not exist! There is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, they are persons, they are not some vague idea in the clouds ... This God spray does not exist! The three persons exist!”

(Bergoglio at Santa Marta: What we dare not hope for”, News.va, Oct. 9, 2014)

Video of him denying the Unity of the Three Divine Persons of God at the following link:

http://www.novusordowatch.org/wire/francis-god-does-not-exist.htm

Ratzinger, whose writings were on the Holy Office's Index of prohibited works in the 1950's as being suspect of heresy, then denied that the Catholic Church IS the Mystical Body of Christ at Vatican-2, and among his subsequent writings has attacked in order to deny it Christ's Bodily Resurrection from the dead and has specifically denied the resurrection of the body at the Last Judgment for souls of the just: we will merely "be remembered in a special way in the mind of God"

Wojtyla committed Communicatio in Sacris, worship with false religions, with almost every pagan sect under the sun, even feeding 'sacred orange peels' [sic] to voodoo snake gods[sic] in West Africa, kissed the Koran in homage, and who has falsely declared that we do not know if anyone is indeed in Hell,,,,,

These are basic elemental principles and truths being violated, starting with;

"I am the Lord Thy God, thou shalt have no strange gods before Me."

Even if it was not clear to all at the beginning of ROncalli's reign, Satan has become so blatant in his agenda through these heretics, he wants you to assent to him and his false church KNOWINGLY and it has indeed reached the point that if you are in for a dime with the V-2 sect of the Antichrist, you are in for a dollar.

Wojtyla denying God in kissing the Koran in homage

32 posted on 05/11/2016 2:05:16 PM PDT by SGNA
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