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To: piusv
Sedevacantists absolutely can morally judge what is evident. What they can not do is force their judgment on others and claim it as dogmatic fact until the Church has spoken.

Which "Church" will make that call? Bishop Sanborn's? The congregation of St. Gertrude the Great? Who among the sedevacantist flock possesses the authority to indicate to the others that the moment has finally come to reboard the Bark of St. Peter? Or are those within the sedevacantist movement each their own shepherd? These are serious questions.

Doesn't Sacred Scripture already provide the action plan for responding to popes who attempt to promote error?

"But when Cephas was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed" Gal 2:11

The sedevacantist movement appears to be essentially an unscriptural novelty which has arisen in response to other unscriptural novelties advanced within the "pastoral" Vat II documents.

Given the fact that this crisis is unprecedented in the history of the Church no Catholic should judge another's Catholicity when responding to it.

Agree. But it's necessary to examine the logic behind all post-Vatican II novelties. There are wolves on every front in this spiritual war.

28 posted on 05/11/2016 7:49:43 AM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: BlatherNaut; SGNA
Which "Church" will make that call? Bishop Sanborn's? The congregation of St. Gertrude the Great? Who among the sedevacantist flock possesses the authority to indicate to the others that the moment has finally come to reboard the Bark of St. Peter? Or are those within the sedevacantist movement each their own shepherd? These are serious questions.

Well, according to some the post-Vatican II church (ie. the supposed Bark of St Peter) will do this...and yet there is not one prelate who appears to be Catholic/not Modernist. Yes, how will a bunch of Modernists/heretics declare one of their own a manifest heretic and non-pope?

So, yes, good questions. I'm not sure anyone has all the answers. I tend to think that this is up to God to sort out.

Doesn't Sacred Scripture already provide the action plan for responding to popes who attempt to promote error? "But when Cephas was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed" Gal 2:11

Was Cephas a manifest heretic? No. So, Scripture does not provide the action plan for the current crisis.

The sedevacantist movement appears to be essentially an unscriptural novelty which has arisen in response to other unscriptural novelties advanced within the "pastoral" Vat II documents.

First of all, "unscriptural" isn't normally the only standard a Catholic uses. Regardless, I would argue that the Great Western Schism was an "unscriptural novelty" as well. Never did Catholics believe nor think that the Church would ever have 3 "popes" vying for the Chair. Laity and clerics alike had to make judgments over who was the true pope until the Church settled the matter. Even Catholic saints made the wrong choice prior to that declaration.

So the "unscriptural novelty" argument against sedevacantism doesn't work.

But it's necessary to examine the logic behind all post-Vatican II novelties. There are wolves on every front in this spiritual war.

True. For me, it is not logical that a manifest, public heretic can possibly be the Vicar Of Christ and there is Catholic teaching to support it.

30 posted on 05/11/2016 12:57:09 PM PDT by piusv (The Spirit of Christ hasn't refrained from using separated churches as means of salvation:VII heresy)
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To: BlatherNaut
Please don't confuse the less than stellar personalities who may hold the First See to be vacant with the Church's own teaching on the matter, which is most clear, constant, and voluminous.

We must obey the pope - unless he is not the pope.

It may sound contradictory, but we are called to make moral judgments of what is good and what is evil - based upon Natural Law, the teachings of Christ and of His Church - each and every day,

31 posted on 05/11/2016 2:05:16 PM PDT by SGNA
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