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To: Mrs. Don-o; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer; kinsman redeemer; BlueDragon; metmom; boatbums; ...
According to Ed Peters (canon lawyer, runs the "In the Light of the Law" blog) Pope Francis does not meet the fairly stringent canonical criteria for heresy because he does not state outright dissent in a clear and unambiguous way.

Which is just one more example of the multitudes of things that RCS disagree on, which the magisterium does not settle, while RCs promote it. Another example is that RCs debate whether papal elections are infallible .

52 posted on 05/16/2016 8:37:55 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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To: daniel1212; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer; kinsman redeemer; BlueDragon; metmom; boatbums
Another example is that RCs debate whether papal elections are infallible .

No, you misunderstand. Infallibility is a charism of protection for the Church bestowed by the Holy Ghost upon a valid pope to never in issuing a solemn public universally binding teaching on faith or morals, proclaimed as such, to ever be in error.

A papal conclave to elect a pope has no guarantee that the electors will choose the best and holiest candidate. If the electors fast, pray and sincerely ask for guidance of the Holy Ghost in the matter, then the possibilities considerably improve! If they don't, then......

What we are discussing among ourselves is whether the person elected, was even a Catholic, that is held the Catholic Faith whole and entire, in the first place. If he was not a Catholic but instead formally held heresy, then the election is null and void. One cannot be the earthly Head (Christ being the real Head) of the Mystical Body of Christ, if one is not even a member of it.

Those of us who see that the wolves are not sheep nor shepherds recognize that this applies to all the heretics 'elected' since 1958 and the start of the non-Catholic Vatican-2 'church'.

It's a matter of Divine Law expressly codified in the following Apostolic Constitution of which I'll provide a few excerpts:

Cum ex Apostolatus Officio" - Apostolic Constitution of Pope Paul IV, 15th February 1559 -(Roman Bullarium Vol. IV. Sec. I, pp. 354-357)

6. In addition, [by this Our Constitution, which is to remain valid in perpetuity We enact, determine, decree and define:-]

that if ever at any time it shall appear that any Bishop, even if he be acting as an Archbishop, Patriarch or Primate; or any Cardinal of the aforesaid Roman Church, or, as has already been mentioned, any legate, or even the Roman Pontiff, prior to his promotion or his elevation as Cardinal or Roman Pontiff, has deviated from the Catholic Faith or fallen into some heresy:

(i) the promotion or elevation, even if it shall have been uncontested and by the unanimous assent of all the Cardinals, shall be null, void and worthless;

(ii) it shall not be possible for it to acquire validity (nor for it to be said that it has thus acquired validity) through the acceptance of the office, of consecration, of subsequent authority, nor through possession of administration, nor through the putative enthronement of a Roman Pontiff, or Veneration, or obedience accorded to such by all, nor through the lapse of any period of time in the foregoing situation;

(iii) it shall not be held as partially legitimate in any way;

(iv) to any so promoted to be Bishops, or Archbishops, or Patriarchs, or Primates or elevated as Cardinals, or as Roman Pontiff, no authority shall have been granted, nor shall it be considered to have been so granted either in the spiritual or the temporal domain;

(v) each and all of their words, deeds, actions and enactments, howsoever made, and anything whatsoever to which these may give rise, shall be without force and shall grant no stability whatsoever nor any right to anyone;

(vi) those thus promoted or elevated shall be deprived automatically, and without need for any further declaration, of all dignity, position, honour, title, authority, office and power.

58 posted on 05/16/2016 10:34:51 PM PDT by SGNA
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To: daniel1212

It is all quit dizzying.


62 posted on 05/16/2016 11:10:56 PM PDT by Gamecock ( Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul...Matthew 10:28)
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To: daniel1212
Although you'll find authentic Catholic opinion disagreeing on all sorts of truly debatable things, please note that post of the participants in this corner of the thread are sedevacantists, which is to say, ex-Catholics.

I am not naming them because I do not wish to ping them into the further discussion with me. However, I think it's accurate to say that they are as Catholic as you are: no more, no less.

82 posted on 05/17/2016 5:09:30 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Stone cold sober, as a matter of fact.)
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