Posted on 05/21/2016 8:38:01 AM PDT by Salvation
This a fascinating topic. I think there are some Rapture believers that believe all babies will be rapture and some that think only some babies will be. I don’t know what they think about post-rapture conception during what follows.
Also, it is strange we live in a society where we probably have the highest % of faithful Christian Rapture believers, but they don’t seem to prepare anything too special to make it easier for the ones that are going to be left behind. Or at least not make it harder. Like you would think there would be foundations or procedures or something to help out the non saved or something.
I’m no expert, but the most I have seen along these lines is almost a joke thing with arrangements made with atheists to take care of Rapture believers pets. But now that I think about it, that actually makes sense for faithful and responsible Christians to do, right?
Freegards
“Thus we are left with a text that simply does not support what rapture theorists say.”
Indeed, I’m a protestant, and I agree, but I’d go even further. The text from Thessalonians flat out eliminates the possibility of any rapture prior to the first resurrection, since it tells us that the living WILL NOT precede the dead in entering the kingdom. Since Revelation is clear that the first resurrection happens at the very end of the tribulation, after Christ’s return is witnessed by the whole world, then what Thessalonians describes cannot precede that.
“Those scriptures have been with the church from the beginning, and really the argument is not about the existence of a ‘rapture’ but in the timing or interpretation of that event.”
Yes, those scriptures have been around, but until “rapture” theorists cropped up, everyone correctly understood them to be merely describing the resurrection of the righteous. There is no separate event only for the living described in any of those verses, no matter how hard one tries to twist them to justify it.
“wouldn’t the same logic work against the gospel writers seeing Jesus revealed in the Scriptures of the old testament”
Let me know when the rapture theorists can perform a miracle like raising the dead in order to give us confirmation that their new revelations come from God. Jesus and the apostles supplied that confirmation, so if you want to compare them, then I think it’s only fair to hold them to the same standard.
This part of the verse is where they get that it is for the living: “we who are alive and remain will be caught up”
The “caught up” part of that verse is what the discussion is all about. It is the word harpazo in Greek which is translated ‘rapturo’ in Latin.
So, a translation of that is: “we who are alive and remain will be ‘rapturo’ed”
I think you can see that this is not a new part of scripture.
“The “caught up” part of that verse is what the discussion is all about. “
That’s certainly what rapture believers WANT the discussion to be about. They would love for everyone to ignore the context that says the living WILL NOT precede the dead in entering the kingdom, because if you admit that, then the entire idea of a rapture prior to the first resurrection is debunked.
This Protestant also agrees. To further emphasise the point one needs to read the Gospel of John chapter 6. There we are repeatedly told that we will all be raised ON THE LAST DAY.
No, thanks, lol.
But not Mary, eh?
The problem is with the use of the word RAPTURE which is usually used in connection with dispensational pre-millemialism. Many Christians who are brought up in different traditions are, quite simply, unfamiliar with the word, although they certainly believe that they will be caught up because God’s word tells them so.
A guy by the name of Darby conjured it up using vague references in the NT. Then the Scofield reference Bible enlarged on it. Some churches are so radical on it that to not believe in it you're banned. The main problem is people are so caught up in the concept they loose focus of Yeshua and His teachings and of Paul's writings. They feel that why should they bother with anything because they believe the Rapture is imminent.
One of their arguments is that they'll be caught up in the air and forever be with Christ. If I was coming to someones house and they come out to meet me, we all don't go back to where I live but to enter their house to where I'm coming.
I can show you in scripture where Enoch and Elisha were raptured Got a reference for Mary?
Yes. That is what I’m saying. The ‘rapture’ is part of scripture. We’ll go not deeper than that.
I happen to be premillennial, but that’s not my point. My point is simply that those who argue for the non-existence of the term are not fully informed.
In the big picture as a believer in Jesus Christ being what he says he is, I will be letting go if I feel myself lifting up. Christ is my salvation beyond any church doctrine. I hope I’m not on the toilet.
Living believers will not precede deceased believers. This is about believers in Jesus. “...we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord...the dead in Christ...”
It is not about unbelievers.
Historic evidence here.
But is the substance of your argument that God did not, could not, or should not "rapture" anybody not personally and particularly described as raptured in the Bible?
So there's no hope for any of us?
El Cid,
Ah, 1968, That is about when I remember seeing bumper stickers on cars saying “In case of Rapture, this car will be unmanned.” I wondered what it meant. No internet back then to look up the theory. I found the definition in a dictionary. Thought about it and decided That when the end comes, one needs to be ready and strengthening one’s faith was more important than worrying about “when” because some of the little I found seemed to imply that when the date was figured out, then you need to start preparing. My thought was ‘probably too late by then.’
I always wonder if so many believe this, why do we not see at least some who believe it acting differently from the ones that don’t believe it.
For instance in you car driving example, why isn’t there a mechanical failsafe that eventually stops the believer’s car if suddenly no one is driving it, or even simpler why don’t at least some rapture believers have non believers drive them in buses or something?
Freegards
What a bad combination of poor understanding of church history and bibliology.
To operate on this sick would leave almost no meat on the bone.
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