P.S. It was a novus ordo mass. How many novus ordo Masses have altar rails? How many have altar boys holding patents under the communicants' chins?
Posted on 06/06/2016 8:31:02 AM PDT by ebb tide
Vatican II: Mass Destruction
You might want to check out whether your blanket accusations about Wascally Evangelical practice are even TRUE. Truth must be at the core of good Christian worship anywhere, and good evangelical and biblical practice (cf C. S. Lewis for just one) insists that spiritual transformation is the proof of the faith pudding. You folks are so busy thinking you’re the only ones on heaven’s list that you miss the obvious.
Dominus vobiscum, dude.
;^)
Learn the language before you mock it:
Dominus tecum.
Oops, my bad. You’re right, & I thought I was replying to the Wascally Evangelical. Lo siento mucho.
I’m caught up in the New Mass debate myself & have a real question: is the Tridentine Mass after all the only authentic one? I’ve disliked the Novus Ordo Mass from the first and personally can’t stand the `sign of peace’ as it interrupts the Liturgy.
Peace?
It is not enough then to celebrate the New Mass with devotion since it’s conceived as the Last Supper and not [the Sacrifice of] Calvary.
The author doesn't understand the continuity between the Last Supper and Calvary?
Pax tecum
In Buginini's mass, immediately after the Body and Blood of Christ is consecrated, the sheeple sometimes respond, "...until you come again". How does that indicate any semblance of transubstantiation upon the NO's "supper table"?
I am a cradle Catholic (as in, my brother is a Bishop, albeit retired) and I recognize there is but one Christ, one God, one baptism for the remission of sins.
My local church is so bad, I’ve been going to morning prayer and Eucharistic services at a 1928 prayer book Anglican Church, as it is more Catholic than my Catholic church (and lacks the La Raza racist priest and Obama worship of the priest that was thrust upon us).
"Empathizes"? Strange verb choice. The Last Supper and Calvary are two parts of a greater whole. You can't have one without the other.
In Buginini's mass, immediately after the Body and Blood of Christ is consecrated, the sheeple sometimes respond, "...until you come again".
Are you saying that a profession of belief in the Second Coming contradicts a belief in Transubstantiation? Both are de fide dogmata of the Catholic faith; if they contradict each other, they contradicted each other all along.
Or to put it another way, in the TLM, the “sheeple” (or the choir, actually) sings “Et iterum venturus est cum gloria iudicare vivos et mortuos” before the consecration. Since the living and the dead aren’t judged a few minutes later at the consecration, are you saying there’s no semblance of transubstantiation in the TLM either?
Please excuse my typo.
And I do know what de fide dogma is. I just don’t think it’s on display in most novus ordo masses.
Nobody sings during the Canon at my TLM Masses.
P.S. It was a novus ordo mass. How many novus ordo Masses have altar rails? How many have altar boys holding patents under the communicants' chins?
I’m not sure the problem described here (a detachment from the transforming power of Christ’s Sacrament) can be, exclusively linked to post-Vatican II celebrations. This disconnect seems more largely related to modernism creeping in to not only the laity but ordinary as well. And I wouldn’t say the source of said modernism is Vatican II per se.
Rather it’s a “liberal” interpretation of the Council’s recommendations. Take for example the Mass itself (the topic of this thread although there are other examples of abuse of the Council’s product). Vatican II never called for what we call the TLM to be replaced. Rather that an alternative Mass be offered as well, to help obtain the overarching goal of the Council which was to open up the Church, make Her more accessible and inviting to the world. Hence, the so-called “novus ordo”’Mass was born.
It is unfortunate that this alternative was taken too far, taken to an extreme, where the more traditional Mass, relatively speaking, was shunned and discarded. The reason this happened though was not because of Vatican II but because of all the priests, nuns and bishops who were the product of the 60’s and early 70’s, to whom anything “traditional” was anathema. This radical humanism is the root cause of all the problems described in the OP not the Council itself.
My main point is that the blame for the disuse of the TLM lies in the same area from which disrespect for and ignorance of the Sacrament is born, which is secularism and modernity.
To blame what is ultimately, a matter of form for the woes that currently infect all of Christendom is short sighted at best. It doesn’t address the root of the problem which is that far too many aren’t as simplistic as need be, which is trusting in not just the transformation via the Sacrament, but daily prayer, acts of charity and reading Sacred Scripture. For such people who regularly engage in all those activities, it really doesn’t matter what kind of Mass they attend, the Sacrament will always be a point of sublime departure from the temporal to the eternal.
For those who don’t exercise spiritually as described above, it doesn’t and won’t matter how many TLM Masses they attend. It’s the receptive heart (”poverty of spirit”) that is required, not how many times we kneel or in what language the Mass is recited.
Do you not think the TLM does encourages "spirituality" and is more receptive to the Sacred Heart than the Novus Ordo?
I cheer it when I see anyone being serious in any communion about worshiping Jesus (which makes me look kind of odd as a Wascally Evangelical but that’s where the blessing is). It’s possible to get so hung up over details of formats that it’s like arguing whether one should get one’s Vitamin D from milk or from sunshine. Either will do it. What does the overall worship achieve, is what we need to ask.
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