Posted on 07/07/2016 7:09:11 AM PDT by Cronos
J.D. Greear, who was a strong contender for president at the recent Southern Baptist Convention Annual Meeting, says it's unfair to blame declining baptism numbers in the SBC on a resurgence of 5-point Calvinism in Southern Baptist life. Greear graciously stepped aside in a razor close race with Steve Gaines, pastor of Bellevue Baptist Church in Memphis and a more moderate Calvinist — a contest that many say rested on how 5-point Calvinism affects church growth
In an interview with The Christian Post last Thursday, Greear, pastor of Summit Church in Durham, North Carolina, said it doesn't matter how many "points" of Calvinism one holds because "Jesus gave every one of us the Great Commission, and if we're not carrying it out, that's just plain unfaithful."
At issue is the degree of evangelistic zeal and the theological orientation that underpins the historic Southern Baptist emphasis on sharing the Gospel with nonbelievers.
Are critics correct who say 5-point Calvinist theology produces a "frozen chosen" mindset and that stricter Calvinist views yield less outreach and altar calls?
(Excerpt) Read more at christianpost.com ...
fishtank:
Thanks. I haven’t heard of Wayne Grudem. Does he have a blog, I am curios to know more about him and this, what seems to be, a growing unorthodox movement on orthodox Trinitarian and Christological Doctrine within “some segments” of the Reformed and Calvinist movements here in the U.S.
Thanks. You are correct, this eternal subordination of the Son is not orthodox and Calvin himself, who did hold to the Apostles and Nicene Creed, would reject it. It is a form of Arianism and is also correlated with other Christological problems, Nestorianism and the Monophysites, which holds to the notion that Christ is 1 Divine Person (rejects Nestorianism) and He is has both a Fully Divine and human nature (which rejects the Monophysites).
It is indeed problematic on many fronts. Good to see on this front, Traditional Catholics, Orthodox and Historic Reformed groups (Calvinist and Lutheran) can still agree on these historic Doctrines related to the Trinity and who Christ is.
The leaders of the Conservative Resurgence didn’t manage to control the succession of leadership. I know Pressler and Patterson. Both are good men, but a little naive about what happens in organizations. I think they thought that all they needed to do was to get control initially, and the rest would take care of itself. Moreover, the SBC didn’t clean out the CBF types from the state organizations. That created a festering problem and a loss of institutions.
One purge isn't enough - witness Great Britain.
Subordination is one step away from Arianism.
“Subordination is one step away from Arianism.”
Yep, very close to it. I expect it to get worse. A lot of people will eventually be falsely told that this is the true Biblical view, but it was suppressed by the “unsaved” Catholics and others.
Though I don’t agree with everything attached to the label, I’ve discovered that the label that most closely fits my beliefs is Arianism. I’ve been exposing myself to the bible a LOT the last couple of years and many of the views I’ve held for decades have been turned on their ear.
But that belief is that Jesus Christ was/is a created being, albeit the first creation.
I suspect the SBC is seeing declining baptisms and membership because:
“... The wind blows where it likes, you can hear the sound of it but you have no idea where it comes from and where it goes. Nor can you tell how a man is born by the wind of the Spirit.”
I believe God is abandoning America because America (on the whole) has renounced and rejected Him. I don’t see any sign my fellow Baptists are becoming more liberal, either politically or ethically. But if God is withdrawing His Spirit from America, then no Bible-based church will stem the tide!
On the Calvinist vs Arminian angle, I did leave a Calvinist SBC church after asking if it would be heresy to wear a T-shirt saying “Jesus loves you!” when, theologically, they were saying Jesus did NOT love most of the people. I suggested the church buy some T-shirts saying, “God probably doesn’t love you, but just in case he does...”
His body is. He is the First to be created, die, and be resurrected. And look at Philippians 2:6.
I equate where the Jesus says I and the Father are one to be similar to when I say my wife and I are one.
I also believe it was Jesus who was the 4th man in the furnace and dislicated Jacob’s hip and walked with Adam.
Mr. Rogers:
I don’t disagree. God allows things to happen, the OT shows that. When the Jewish people abandoned God (God did not revoke His Covenant with them), their homeland was overrun by invaders.
We in the U.S. are being overrun by lawlessness, crime, etc.
Mr Rogers:
I also agree with on the Jesus Loves you vs. Jesus probably did NOT love most people.
The latter view is problematic sense God by His very nature is Love, that is the Father eternally loves the Son, the Son responds by loving the Father and the bond of Love between Father and Son is the Holy Spirit. So God Loves because it is His Divine Nature. Christ loved even his enemies while on the Cross.
So I agree with your rejection of “Jesus did NOT love most of the people” position.
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