Posted on 07/27/2016 8:25:06 PM PDT by Lera
Um, JESUS in John 14 indicated that He would come and get HIS CHURCH and return to the Father’s House where He has been preparing a place for us. Then in HIS WORD (The Revelation of John) He indicates we who are taken to the place in the Father’s House will come with JESUS back to the Earth for the great and final battle. Read the book, it is all there. But especially read JESUS teaching His own in the Upper Room Discourse (John 13 midway through chapter 14).
And so the chosen of ISRAEL will be hidden from the attack of anti-Christ. The CHURCH is not here being hidden.
The Rapture is not wishful thinking or magic thinking. It is sound Biblical teaching. Did Paul teach on it to the men and women he converted to Christ? Yes he did! He gave them clues we are only in this epoch beginning to discover and sort through, like the passing phrase in the entry to I 1 Thess 1:10, where Paul refers to the rescue from the coming wrath as a done deal, already guaranteed by the Promise of God.
To someone not faithing in GOD's Promises, a coming Rapture/deliverance/rescue of a select group is at onceunsettling, then disgust sets in, that these people would claim GOD will snatch some away then pour HIS wrath on them and theirs. It is natural to then aim insult and anger at the messengers.
Belief in the coming Rapture of the Church/the Body of Christ is not essential to your salvation. But once you are born from above the message JESUS introduced to His in the Upper Room Discourse is of great comfort. It does however carry with it an urgency, for once HE comes to collect HIS in the clouds and return tot he Father's House for a seven year period before bring us back, once he calls out His own, think of what is left upon the Earth to endure without The Grace of The CHURCH AGE sorting mena nd women out!
Let's just hear from the Lord directly on this topic. The Disciples asked Him directly about it all. You guys are skipping the part about how Jesus discusses the great Apostasy and the great Delusion or Deception.
By elevating "the Rapture" you are elevating it into a separate doctrine of its own, which constitutes false teaching. Just listen to the Lord Himself, don't listen to me...
GOD WILL HAVE TO SHORTEN THE TIME FOR THE SAKE OF THE ELECT.
"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
His elect is ISRAEL, not the church.
Grafted in = the Elect.
BTW, JOHN DID ENDURE to the end of the Apostolic persecution period and likely died of natural causes in his old age.
Verse 21 shows us that it is with the event of the abomination that makes desolate that the final wrath OF GOD is then poured out upon the earth and the living thereon. Daniel confirms that 3 1/2 years are the last half of the seventieth week.
The elect Jesus speaks of/to are the elect of God, of the Jewish hidden people who will go into the millennium and have children etc.
It may sound odd, but unless you learn to divide the texts according to whom Jesus refers to, you cannot rightly divide the truth. The people referred to can ONLY be rightly defined by studying the rest of the Word of God and even going back into Old Testament to see how GOD has referred to peoples.
Enjoy you studies ... but never stop at some point believing you have reached all Truth because GOD authored the Bible and one passage can have meaning to generations not even alive at the time of the penning it down. God sees the end right from the beginning, so His perspective has nuance we in our limits well must really dig to comprehend. The digging is mostly done in the layers of His truth offered to us for our being raised up in the way that we should go once born from above.
Do you believe the gifts promised by the prophet Joel (and all the others) and Peter at Pentecost are for today?
I tell you of a truth that I would not be spending time sharing what I have learned in forty plus years (I'm 70, BTW) if the Spirit of The Living God had not reached to me so I could be born from above. HIS Spirit is in me for He never breaks a Promise. The BIBLE says God cannot lie. I believed His promise and He cleansed my spirit and came to be in my spirit until the day He resonates His Presence in order to transform me in a moment in the twinkling of an eye. Without His Grace, well, without HIS GRACE I would have to say as Paul did: 1Cor 15:19-24.
Are you trying to ask if I believe the same gifts of tongues, and prophecy seen on the Day of Pentecost are still happening in our day?
Yes.
Either God has poured out His Spirit on His manservants and maidservants to equip us in these “latter days’ just as Joel and Peter reported — or not.
We are at the last days. The Restrainer is about to be taken out of the way and the devil's own twisted adam servant of evil is about to be revealed. Joel's prophecy was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost. If you are insisting that the language barriers and prediction not be attributable in this day to the technology GOD has allowed men to discover, then you and I have little else to discuss.
Take away technology, THEN the things seen on the Day of Pentecost will come as direct revelation to the minds of those who are faithing in His Promises ... and the conduits will be male, Jewish virgins chosen by God for during the Tribulation.
The barley can be harvested by merely shaking the dried stalks in a breeze and sifting the settling granules from the chaff. The wheat harvest requires a tribulum to press the grain from the stalks. The gentle sifting wind of the Spirit and the still small voice calling to repentance and trust in JESUS as Savior, in order to be born from above, are at an end. The tribulum of unrestrained evil is about to rule the next seven years. And God will then pour out HIS wrath on the ones who still refuse to believe in Whom GOD has sent for our salvation.
Did post #52 answer your question?
If going to make such an assertion, quote the Pauline passages and then annotate.
Paul nor anyone else ever penned that word rapture, why require me to hold a different standard?
9 And David saith, “Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block and a recompense unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway,” (Psalms 69)....
Eve's deception ... IICorinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
There is absolutely no Scripture that foretells the suspension of the law of gravity, which is what is required for flesh bodies to fly off this earth outside of proper equipment.
Are you familiar with the person who translated the Greek into Latin, long ago? He used the term rap ... oh, never mind. You want to hold fast to your opinions. I won’t trouble you further.
quote-Yes.
Either God has poured out His Spirit on His manservants and maidservants to equip us in these “latter days’ just as Joel and Peter reported — or not.
Haven’t been invited in, but your discussion is interesting as there are hints in scripture that point to what you are referencing. and coupled with a couple other scriptures, we may see some connection.
And it sort of links the ‘man carrying the jar of water to go and prepare the upper room for the Passover, with your note of the prophecy of pouring out my Spirit on all flesh.
Right now, according to the ‘signs’ in the skies, Passover is being held while the sun is traveling through the sign of the ‘2 Fish’ (I will make you Fishers of Men-certainly a prophetic witness in His Creation that the New Testament is real- a witness against unbelievers, but a witness for His believers)
There is coming a time in the future that Passover will no longer be observed while the sun is traveling through the 2 Fish in His sky, but while the sun is traveling through the ‘Water Bearer’ or ‘the man carrying a jar of water’.
We aren’t there yet in His Creation..but we arent far away.
Jesus references, quite interestingly, that ‘man carrying a jar of water’ in two of His gospels! Now, without paying attention to His signs and His Creation, we read a man carrying a jar of water, but with an understanding of the story He tells in His sky, it seems to be a hint/riddle/insight that only His people may understand.
A reference of a literal man carrying a jar of water would be odd, as history and scholars I’ve seen, say it was women who carried the water.
But in a literal watching His Creation for signs, there really is a time, in His Creation, when the ‘man carrying the jar of water (acquarius/water bearer) will be above the heads of the world during His Passover..
Just given your discussion, thought you too would be interested.
Thanks for your time and excuse my butting in.
May He bless you both more than He has me!
You are never uninvited! Thanx for that compelling insight.
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