Posted on 08/20/2016 7:45:03 AM PDT by Salvation
I was not the person who confirmed the presence of a “Gay Lobby,” in Vatican City. That person was Francis. It was speculated at the time that he would only be speaking openly about such a lobby if he were getting ready to do something about it.
But that was in June of ‘13, and it is now August, 2016. Nothing has been done. Francis confirmed the presence of a powerful homosexual lobby within the Vatican itself...after which nothing happened.
Why did nothing happen? Why wasn’t there an outcry? The pope himself confirmed no less than a homosexual lobby, and there was no widespread reaction of shock and horror. There was no groundswell of opposition, demanding that the lobbyists for sin and evil—a particular kind of evil, btw, that caused God to destroy five entire cities with fire and brimstone—be expelled. Rather, Francis’ big confirmation was swept under the rug, and business as usual continued in Rome.
What kind of mindset is required to ignore and even forget about such a confirmation? What does it take for people who profess obedience to God to simply shrug off the presence and practice of a Gay Lobby, and act as if it were nothing out of the ordinary?
Look at your own reaction. Are you aghast that homosexual lobbyists are allowed to operate within Vatican City? Do you affirm that the Apostle Paul’s teaching was one-hundred percent correct, and that these lobbyists for a particularly perverted form of sin/evil MUST be expelled ASAP?
Nothing could be further from the truth. Instead, you want to focus on me. As if I’m somehow to blame, and if you can just manage to silence me, the Gay Lobby will be a non-issue.
It’s not about me. I have nothing to do with the presence and practices in Vatican City of the Gay Lobbyists. I did not confirm their existence. I only mentioned what your own pope confirmed, and pointed out the truth: that no action has been taken against these lobbyists for sin and corruption.
Why are you not more outraged at the presence of homosexual promoters within the highest echelons of Rome? Why are you not leading the charge to have them expelled, thus cleansing at least the Roman leadership of this abomination? Why does it take a non-Catholic to even mention these facts, much less to urge that action be taken?
I am not the problem. The Gay Lobby is the problem. Clean out the filth in your own upper echelons, before speculating on how God will deal with those who serve Him while ***NOT*** tolerating a Gay Lobby in their/our midst.
Is the word milk?
For amihow and all Roman Catholics who may read this: What does this Scripture say to YOU?
John 12 English Standard Version (ESV)
44 And Jesus cried out and said, “Whoever believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me.
45 And whoever sees me sees him who sent me.
46 I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness.
47 If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.
49 For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me.”
It is indeed addressing servants, but the only place of suffering mentioned is with unbelievers, which is where the Lord elsewhere places those who are not ready. (Matthew 25:10) And as they receive not grace but the wages of sin, even if ignorant of Christ, them judgment is according to the degree of accountability.
And indeed it is more important to heed the words of the Messiah, and avoid the stripes, than to read RC purgatory into the text.
And what is to keep the *true* teaching church from falling into error?
What is the mechanism by which it is preserved from error?
How are lay Catholics, or anyone else for that matter, to be sure that the church is not leading them into error?
What is their basis for determining if it’s going astray?
If the Catholic church expects us to believe that it alone is the one, true, church, then why does it's hierarchical not reflect that?
On the contrary, it's reasonable to conclude that if an organization does not have church leadership according to the qualifications outlined by Paul, then it is no way any kind of church much less the 8one true* church.
If it does not have a legitimate structure according to the Holy Spirit in Scripture, then it has no business calling itself a *church*.
Titus 1:5-16 This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you— if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. For an overseer, as God's steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined. He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.
For there are many who are insubordinate, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision party. They must be silenced, since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for shameful gain what they ought not to teach. One of the Cretans, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, not devoting themselves to Jewish myths and the commands of people who turn away from the truth. To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled. They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.
1 Timothy 3:1-13 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.
Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain. They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless. Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things. Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well. For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.
Truly, Truly, you are just like the other non believers that walked away from the Words of Jesus and say that they aren’t true.
Yes the righteous Words of Jesus that you either believe or walk away from.
For 2000 years many millions of Catholics (and even Luther) believe in the TRANSUBSTANATION.
Notice that Jesus made no attempt to soften what he said, no attempt to correct “misunderstandings,” for there were none. Our Lord’s listeners understood him perfectly well. They no longer thought he was speaking metaphorically. If they had, if they mistook what he said, why no correction?
On other occasions when there was confusion, Christ explained just what he meant (cf. Matt. 16:5–12). Here, where any misunderstanding would be fatal, there was no effort by Jesus to correct. Instead, he repeated himself for greater emphasis.
In John 6:60 we read: “Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, ‘This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?’” These were his disciples, people used to his remarkable ways. He warned them not to think carnally, but spiritually: “It is the Spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life” (John 6:63; cf. 1 Cor. 2:12–14).
But he knew some did not believe. (It is here, in the rejection of the Eucharist, that Judas fell away; look at John 6:64.) “After this, many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him” (John 6:66).
This is the only record we have of any of Christ’s followers forsaking him for purely doctrinal reasons. If it had all been a misunderstanding, if they erred in taking a metaphor in a literal sense, why didn’t he call them back and straighten things out? Both the Jews, who were suspicious of him, and his disciples, who had accepted everything up to this point, would have remained with him had he said he was speaking only symbolically.
But he did not correct these protesters. Twelve times he said he was the bread that came down from heaven; four times he said they would have “to eat my flesh and drink my blood.” John 6 was an extended promise of what would be instituted at the Last Supper—and it was a promise that could not be more explicit.
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/christ-in-the-eucharist
Be sure to read Hebrews 11:
26* s If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins 27but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.t 28Anyone who rejects the law of Moses* is put to death without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.u 29Do you not think that a much worse punishment is due the one who has contempt for the Son of God, considers unclean the covenant-blood by which he was consecrated, and insults the spirit of grace?v 30
Again as stated in the Bible which you agree in inspired by the Holy Spirit and clearly states a much worse punishment for one who has contempt for the Son of God, considers unclean the covenant-blood (Eucharist).
So your own personal interpretation??
He didn’t stop the rich young ruler from walking away either after telling him to seek everything. Do we have to sell everything to have salvation??
Thank you for that timely reminder of the qualifications for elders and deacons. The texts are crystal clear, and represent God’s unchangeable guidelines. Anyone who claims extra-Biblical tradition is a sufficient authority to set aside the direct Word of God has fallen into the same trap that ruined the Pharisees. Jesus minced no words on that subject; it’s terrifying to even contemplate repeating the Pharisees’ error.
Your opinion.
Just another inconsequential protest.
I think Jesus knew what was in his heart.
Whatever you give away for Christ one will receive many fold.
There has to be a better way of doing this.
We've got to stop talking everyone else out of the fold. I understand the temptation but it really is getting beyond ugly. I know we have sharp theological differences represented on the RF but surely we have to get to the point where if someone claims to believe in Our Lord, everyone can accept that claim at face value without this "You don't believe in MY Jesus" silliness.
Not that easy. If the catholic wants John 6:53-57 to be literal then the passage with the rich young ruler has to be literal as well. You have to sell everything. You can't have it both ways.
This is a nice gesture on your part but roman catholicism says you have to believe in transubstantiation to be saved or too bad.
This flies against the rest of the NT where one comes to Christ through faith/belief.
The Catholic Church is like family both good members that you like and bad members that you don’t like. Like family sometime you put up with the situation as you have no control.
I wish our society and our Catholic Church was in harmony without sin, but it isn’t.
In-spite of individual sins, Jesus promised to stay with us till the end and ensure that our doctrine was the Truth of Jesus.
I don’t know enough about the “powerful homosexual lobby” to deal with that issue. It could be very disruptive to the Church, but I do not see any doctrinal changes coming (even if Pope Francis leans that way).
God doesn’t like any sin whether it is internal in members of the Church or from non believers.
The promise of Christ keeps the true church from falling into error. “He who hears you hears me”
Logic. And Scripture. History.
Ok. Let everything be literal, but the Catholic Church says there are many different forms of writing in the Bible.
Some are literal, some allegory, some parables, some history, etc.
In the parable of Lazarus and the rich man Jesus uses human experiences of life and human experiences of death to teach that one’s life affects one’s fate, that one’s fate is sealed at death, and that those who will not listen to God’s word will not take heed of his own Resurrection either.
This. God explicitly says we are to encourage one another, and build each other up. If we take these admonitions to heart, it would never come down to an argument over whose church/assembly is better.
I saw in a previous post that my motives for mentioning the Vatican’s Gay Lobby have been called into question. I’ll take this opportunity to clarify.
The absolute ideal in my mind is a Holy Spirit led revival that begins in Rome and spreads worldwide. The first step would be a public expulsion of those promoting a homosexual agenda. The next step would be a church-wide call to prayer, repentance, purity and holiness.
Once the sin has been expunged and God’s people are calling on His Name, there are no limits. When the power of the Holy Spirit is unleashed, revival can spread like wildfire. Imagine Christians all over the world observing the revival, catching the spirit, rededicating themselves to prayer and holiness, and the revival just growing and growing.
It could happen. With God all things are possible.
1 Thessalonians 5:11
Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as you also are doing.
Hebrews 10:24
and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds,
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