Posted on 09/11/2016 4:24:38 PM PDT by marshmallow
Whoever told you that you are going to Hell because of “invincible ignorance” was not a well-educated Catholic.
“Invincible ignorance” is one of the ways people AVOID going to Hell.
Of course, the moment you say, “Whoopee! I’m invincibly ignorant!” you no longer are.
I'm glad you see my point.
But for those who may doubt me, I offer the following:
From church to mosque: Syracuse Islamic group cuts crosses, tries to connect to neighborhood
As German Church Becomes Mosque, Neighbors Start to Shed Unease
Historic 127-Year-Old Catholic Church Is Now a Mosque
Muslim group to use former Catholic church as a mosque
From Church to Mosque: Rebirth of Spiritual Spaces in Utica’s Second Ward
There are more of course, but this is a good sample.
I never doubted you bro, even if some did. 😀😆😄
Just to assure you...Catholic doctrine does recognize Protestants as Christians and going to heaven as well. Indeed, it is heresy to say otherwise...let your friend know that...
Difficult to respond on the “extra biblical teachings”.
I am a recent convert to Catholicism, let me tell you I have been shocked by the rancor of many Protestants! I rarely experienced that kind of rancor from Catholics while I was Protestant.
EXACTLY........Well said..I believe the same....the real horrors of today,Christians being murdered,unborn babies being butchered,Muslims raping children,murdering innocent people,they seem like afterthoughts to him...Oh yeah,gotta say sonething about abortion.It`s been 6 months since my last mention...Not all popes were good guys..For whatever reason,God allowed them to be in charge of the church..So it is with Francis.
That is absolutely laughable.
A five year old has the theological knowledge to know that this pope is so far off base that he is nowhere near being the best person to save souls, which he can't do anyway. Only Jesus can save anyone.
And Jesus gave that commission to all His disciples, not just Peter.
Evangelism is not the responsibility of only paid clergy. It's the responsibility of every genuine believer.
Catholics are leaving the church in droves by all accounts. If it is growing as you claim, could you provide the stats to prove it?
Can’t speak for Catholics, but involvement in the WCC is not viewed as a good thing by Protestant evangelicals. Be very wary.
Catholics have stopped haranguing Christians with their meme that everyone in the world needs to be in submission to the pope.
Ahhh, well sorry, submission to Jesus is the key to Everlasting Live and life in the Kingdom of God.
The WCC is a secular org which teaches one world religion
They are NOT a Christian organization.
WORLD Council of “Churches?”
Catholicism can join them, Christianity cannot.
It should be added that invincible ignorance doesn’t save someone from going to Hell if their unrepentant sins still send them there.
The Catholic Faith prior to Vatican II absolutely held that no one outside the Catholic Church (that would include the members of the separated sects) could be saved. Their churches were not considered means of salvation and they were not considered part of Christ’s church. If a Protestant is saved through invincible ignorance it is not because of their membership in their Protestant sect. And to be clear Baptism of Desire does not pertain to those who were already baptized and then lived their lives as a Protestant.
Obviously. Which is why I didn’t spell it out.
Feeneyism. Which is a heresy.
So true because Christians recognize that it's JESUS CHRIST who saves, not a religion, church membership,baptism, or any other number of works that save.
But they are not considered part of Christ's church by the Catholic church. Jesus has a different opinion of those who put their faith in Him and Him alone for salvation. And HE says that they are part of His body.
And His opinion is the only one that counts.
God's standard is absolute perfection. One sin damns, just as it did for Adam and Eve and even if one sin were all you committed in your entire life and you lived an otherwise perfect, sin free life, you would still not come out from under the penalty of death.
Works don't save. They CAN'T save. If righteousness could come by the Law, the Christ died for nothing. God would have set up that system instead of subjecting Jesus to the horror of the cross.
Even Jesus prayed that if there be any other way. But there wasn't and there still isn't.
Forgiveness freely granted by God's grace and mercy is the ONLY thing that deals with our sin and enables us to stand before God with a clean slate.
Before there was a Bible, there was a Church. Protestants use the words "church" and "works" far too loosely. "Christians" understand the doctrine of the Mystical Body which teaches that Jesus is the Head of the Church which is His Body. Jesus and His Church are inseparable. Further, the relationship between Jesus and His Church is that of a spouse and his bride. See Ephesians.
Try not to separate Jesus from His Church, which he founded on the rock of Peter.
Works don't save. They CAN'T save. If righteousness could come by the Law, the Christ died for nothing.
Why are you conflating "works" with the old Mosaic Law? They are not synonymous. In the New Covenant, works certainly are important because works are a manifestation of something more important than faith; namely charity. No, works alone will not save you but faith alone, absolutely will not save you either. Which is why Paul, in his letter to the Corinthians, says:
And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
1 Cor 13:2
Read Matthew's account of the Last Judgment.
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in: Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.
Matt 25: 33-39
This is how we will be judged. Jesus says so. And these are works, yes?
All of this helps to explain the famous words of James, much beloved by Protestants, that "faith without works is dead" (James 2:20).
A five year old only seems to have the theological knowledge to understand the Pope, etc. because of your lack of theological understanding. If you had the deeper knowledge you would understand the Pope’s actions and role more.
Here are some articles about Church growth.
http://www.ewtnnews.com/catholic-news/US.php?id=3632
I don’t believe that Christianity is shrinking...indeed, it is growing faster than the population presently. I think there are cycles of increase and decline and most articles you read written by liberals like to give the impression Christianity is seriously declining. It is not.
Vatican ll cleared up some flawed theological beliefs. So what? For the past fifty years the Catholic Church has been clear on the understanding that all good Christians may attain heaven, as well as, those who are truly ignorant of Christianity but do understand there is a God and the moral laws instilled inside our souls.
I noticed in the Niocene Creed as well as the Apostle’s Creed when it comes to claiming belief in the holy catholic church it is small c rather than capital C which refers to the universal Christian church...
“Sorry- it seems this one maybe works for Soros.”
To the ill informed it may. But, reality is that the Pope adhere’s to God’s will and this Pope does that just fine, indeed, is a great example of Jesus’ mercy and grace.
That proves nothing.
SCRIPTURE was in existence before the church was. Just because someone who claimed to be Catholic compiled it into one edition means nothing. Anyone could have done that. It does not give them the right to take credit for its existence.
Nor does it give anyone authority over it or special ability to *properly* *interpret* it.
Try not to separate Jesus from His Church, which he founded on the rock of Peter.
The church is not Jesus Himself. He is the head of it, but it does not equate to Jesus Himself.
Nor is the *petra* that the church was founded on Peter. *Petra* is CHRIST as Paul tells us and so does Peter himself.
1 Corinthians 10:1-4 For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock (petra) that followed them, and the Rock (petra) was Christ.
http://biblehub.com/text/romans/9-33.htm
Romans 9:30-33 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, as it is written,“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock (petra) of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”
http://biblehub.com/text/1_peter/2-8.htm
1 Peter 2:1-8 So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation— if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good.
As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”
So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,
“The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,”
and
“A stone of stumbling, and a rock (petra) of offense.”
They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.
All occurrences of *petra* in the Greek.
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