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Dilution of Doctrine (Excellent)
NY Times ^ | 09-17-2016 | Ross Douthat

Posted on 09/18/2016 4:33:17 PM PDT by NRx

LAST weekend Tim Kaine, the Democratic vice-presidential nominee and a churchgoing Catholic, briefly escaped obscurity by telling an audience of L.G.B.T. activists that he expects his church to eventually bless and celebrate same-sex marriages.

In short order his bishop, Francis X. DiLorenzo of Richmond, Va., had a statement out declaring that the Catholic understanding of marriage would remain “unchanged and resolute.”

In a normal moment, it would be the task of this conservative Catholic scribbler to explain why the governor is wrong and the bishop is right, why scripture and tradition make it impossible for Catholicism to simply reinvent its sexual ethics.

But this is not a normal moment in the Catholic Church. As the governor was making his prediction, someone leaked a letter from Pope Francis to the Argentine bishops, praising their openness to allowing some divorced-and-remarried Catholics to receive communion.

The “private” letter was the latest move in a papal dance that’s been going on since Francis was elected. The pope clearly wants to admit remarried Catholics to communion, and he tried by hook and crook to get the world’s bishops to agree. But he faced intense resistance from conservatives, who pointed out that this reform risked evacuating the church’s teaching that sacramental marriages are indissoluble and second marriages adulterous.

The conservative resistance couldn’t be overcome directly without courting a true crisis. So Francis has proceeded indirectly, offering studied ambiguity in official publications combined with personal suggestions of where he really stands.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: homosexualagenda; religiousleft; timkaine; virginia
Ross Douthat is one of the good guys. I really can't believe who signs his paychecks.
1 posted on 09/18/2016 4:33:17 PM PDT by NRx
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To: NRx

I see a distinct difference between a divorcee who repents after realizing the error of their ways (divorce IS a sin) and a practicing, non-repentant homosexual. Without repentance, there can be no forgiveness.


2 posted on 09/18/2016 4:55:43 PM PDT by CitizenUSA (Proverbs 14:34 Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people.)
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To: NRx
“Ross Douthat is one of the good guys. I really can't believe who signs his paychecks.”

I agree that Ross Douthat is “one of the good guys”, and it is surprising the NYTimes “signs his paychecks”. I think the latter is the case in part because Douthat is so measured that the Times probably didn't initially realize that he is orthodox. However, this Pope is pushing Douthat to be more direct, so the Times probably has figured out that Ross truly believes in (genuine) Catholicism. Makes me chuckle to think how that must tick-off some of the higher-ups at the Times!

3 posted on 09/18/2016 4:56:42 PM PDT by utahagen
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To: CitizenUSA
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsR2IrXUEAExe0d.jpg:large
4 posted on 09/18/2016 4:56:51 PM PDT by NRx (A man of integrity passes his father's civilization to his son, without selling it off to strangers.)
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To: CitizenUSA
I see a distinct difference between a divorcee who repents after realizing the error of their ways (divorce IS a sin)

Incorrect, divorce is not possible. The sins that must be repented of are abandonment of one's spouse and adultery. The bonds of the marriage remain.

5 posted on 09/18/2016 5:16:17 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius

Pipe dream....no pun intended


6 posted on 09/18/2016 5:50:39 PM PDT by wardamneagle (C)
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To: wardamneagle
Pipe dream....no pun intended

Tell it to Jesus:

But I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) causes her to commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. (Matthew 5:32)

7 posted on 09/18/2016 6:02:48 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: CitizenUSA; NRx
"I see a distinct difference between a divorcee who repents after realizing the error of their ways (divorce IS a sin) and a practicing, non-repentant homosexual."

Two problems with this:

(1) Divorce in itself is not, per se, a sin. Sometimes a spouse who struggled mightily to save the marriage is made the victim of a divorce which he or she did not want. That spouse is divorced, but not guilty. And sometimes petitioning for a divorce is necessary to protect an innocent spouse and children from an abusive marriage partner.

(2)The sin we've been discussing, is re-marriage following a civil divorce. Civil divorce does not affect by one molecule, the ongoing validity of the sacramental marriage bond. A valid sacramental marriage is until the death of one of the spouses, even if the spouses are civilly divorced; and subsequent re-marriage would be adultery (bigamy.)

In short: marriage is indissoluble; remarriage is adultery.

A person in a second, civil marriage is a practicing, non-repentant bigamist.

Unless..

Unless the first "marriage" turns out not to have been binding at all, from the git-go, because of some defect (examples would be: one or both of the spouses were underage, mentally defective, drunk or on drugs, coerced, married on the basis of some ssrious deception or fraud, etc.)

This would require a Church investigation and a formal decree of nullity (so-called "annulment") or...

Unless the spouses in the second marriage live in sexual continence, i.e. as brother and sister, abstaining from the acts which would constitute adultery.

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8 posted on 09/18/2016 6:09:23 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Jesus, my Lord, my God, my All.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I was following your logic which seems to be Catholic doctrine until you got to the point about the first marriage being not binding at all. Everything you said up until then is supported by scripture. Annulment? I don’t see the scriptural support for that. “Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” No one, I think, includes the Catholic Church.


9 posted on 09/18/2016 6:24:45 PM PDT by CitizenUSA (Proverbs 14:34 Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people.)
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To: CitizenUSA
"'Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.' No one, I think, includes the Catholic Church."

Thank you for bringing up that point. I think I can clear that up. What you say is absolutely true: if God has joined the two together, then no one can separate them, that is, no one can break the bond.

That has always been the teaching of the Catholic Church, for 2,000 years, and is so today.

The difficulty comes in if God did not actually join them, because there was something fundamentally wrong which prevented it being a valid marriage from Day One.

A few "way out there" examples should make that obvious.

I know these are extreme examples, but I just wanted to make a point that not every matrimonial ceremony is valid, because sometimes there is an invalidating condition not compatible with the making of a binding sacred vow.

That is not for either of the marriage partners to determine on their own. There has to be an objective investigation of the facts, and a judgment made by a Church tribunal. The initial assumption is always that the vows are binding. That can be overturned only of there is convincing evidence that the "vows" were fraudulent or defective from the beginning, and hence not really vows at all, i.e. not binding.

We believe this is the proper interpretation of what Our Lord said about "unlawful sexual unions" (Greek: porneia)

Matthew 5:32
"But I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful - porneia) causes her to commit adultery (moicheia), and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery(moicheia)."

10 posted on 09/18/2016 7:12:10 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (I'm here to learn.)
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To: NRx

Yeah, I was surprised to read this in the NY Slimes.


11 posted on 09/18/2016 9:30:24 PM PDT by NetAddicted (Just looking)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Interesting! Thank you.


12 posted on 09/19/2016 2:10:22 AM PDT by CitizenUSA (Proverbs 14:34 Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people.)
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To: NRx

Just keep telling yourselves that it didn’t start with evolution and higher criticism. Yessir, absolutely no connection there.


13 posted on 09/19/2016 6:56:52 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Sof davar hakol nishma`; 'et-ha'Eloqim yera' ve'et-mitzvotayv shemor, ki-zeh kol-ha'adam.)
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To: NRx

Tim Kaine felt emboldened to make their doctrinal proclamation because of ... something. That something is the wielders of this church itself.

“Who am I to judge...” goes a long way for the left.


14 posted on 09/19/2016 7:37:30 AM PDT by fwdude (If we keep insisting on the lesser of two evils, that is exactly what they will give us from now on.)
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