Theologian: Shared Communion With Protestants Would be Blasphemy and Sacrilege

National Catholic Register ^ | January 2, 2017 | Edward Pentin

[BlessedBeGod]

...If the Church were to change its rules on shared Eucharistic Communion it would “go against Revelation and the Magisterium”, leading Christians to “commit blasphemy and sacrilege,” an Italian theologian has warned.

Drawing on the Church’s teaching based on Sacred Scripture and Tradition, Msgr. Nicola Bux, a former consulter to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, stressed that non-Catholic Christians must have undertaken baptism and confirmation in the Catholic Church, and repented of grave sin through sacramental confession, in order to be able to receive Jesus in the Eucharist.

Msgr. Bux was responding to the Register about concerns that elements of the current pontificate might be sympathetic of a form of “open Communion” proposed by the German Protestant theologian, Jürgen Moltmann.

The concerns have arisen primarily due to the Holy Father’s own comments on Holy Communion and Lutherans, his apparent support for some remarried divorcees to receive Holy Communion, and how others have used his frequently repeated maxim about the Eucharist: that it is “not a prize for the perfect, but a powerful medicine and nourishment for the weak.”

The debate specifically over intercommunion with Christian denominations follows recent remarks by Cardinal Walter Kasper who, in a Dec. 10 interview with Avvenire, said he hopes Pope Francis’ next declaration will open the way for intercommunion with other denominations “in special cases.”

The German theologian said shared Eucharistic communion is just a matter of time, and that the Pope’s recent participation in the Reformation commemoration in Lund has given “a new thrust” to the “ecumenical process.”

Pope Francis has often expressed his admiration for Cardinal Kasper’s theology whose thinking has significantly influenced…the priorities of this pontificate, particularly on the Eucharist.

For Moltmann, Holy Communion is “the Lord's supper, not something organized by a church or a denomination”...

[MHGinTN]

You either have not been keeping up with the full data in the posts to you, or you’re too lost to comprehend Who I AM is. Jesus IS GOD, IS GOD WITH US. HIS NATURE is righteousness. Could His mother impart that essence to Him? ... Of course not! She was a descendant from Adam, so she had an Adamic Nature. Thus she cannot be the mother of God, only the Mother of the human side of Jesus. And now you are truly finished! May God have mercy on you for blaspheming HIS NATURE.

[daniel1212]

Glory to God, but how often in heart, even if momentary, is something else the supreme object of our spiritual affection and or allegiance, and or source of security?

[daniel1212]

Behold Daniel1212’s golden calf (his demonization of love for Mary). ...His repudiation of love for the mother of Christ is his golden calf.

Your latest desperate ad hominem blather simply further testifies to your utter lack of any valid defense for your idolatry - which is a from of slander against the holy humble Mary of Scripture - and tiny Catholic cult.

Faithful Catholics can trace their practices historically consistently over the course of 2,000 years by observance of all the saints throughout those 2,000 years.

Once again, your attempted argument from post-apostolic, extra-Scriptural tradition simply testifies to departure from Scripture. Repent and Believe indeed!

Faithful Catholics can trace their practices historically consistently over the course of 2,000 years by observance of all the saints throughout those 2,000 years.

Another refuted LIE, as despite challenges, you are utterly unable to provide even one prayer by a believer to anyone else in Heaven except God, or bowing down to any graven image or any mortal in praise and supplication, or engaging in the profuse Marian type adulation and ascriptions of attributes and powers to anyone but God. Add to the the lack of any valid early evidence of the Assumption and crowning, etc. Simply fables and devotion akin to paganism, versus what Scripture teaches.

Even the Catholic Encyclopedia speculates that a further reinforcement of Marian devotion, “was derived from the cult of the angels, which, while pre-Christian in its origin, was heartily embraced by the faithful of the sub-Apostolic age...Evidence regarding the popular practice of the early centuries is almost entirely lacking...,” (Catholic Encyclopedia > Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary) "

Mother Mary, if it pleases thee,

Seeing you may have set a strikeout record in failing to produce one valid Scriptural argument for your idolatry, it is quite evident that you do not even have a prayer.

[af_vet_1981]

No, they cannot all be right IF fear (Greek phobos) has the exact same meaning in all three cases, because that would be a contradiction in Scripture, and that is impossible.

And yet they are all right.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

Matthew, Catholic chapter ten, Protestant verses twenty eight to thirty one,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

[af_vet_1981]

You cannot have A and Not A be true at the same time and the same way. The law of non-contradiction is applicable even to Scripture.

For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; In that I command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the Lord thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.


---


Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Deuteronomy, Catholic chapter thirty, Protestant verses eleven to twenty,

Matthew, Catholic chapter five, Protestant verses thirteen to twenty,

as authorized, but not authored, by King James

[imardmd1]

Neither do any of the apostles pray to Mary, or seek her counsel on theological issues. Hmmmmm.

[imardmd1]

Thus she cannot be the mother of God, only the Mother of the human side of Jesus.

and His body cannot be made of her DNA, for she does not have a Y-chromosome available for it. That's a fact.

One completely valid and medically known conjecture is that she was the (blessed) surrogate mother of the Father-begotten purely made sinless flesh invested with the Spirit of the Son, which tiny whole fully integrated body/soul/Spirit-of-Christ Person was surgically implanted in Mary's womb--while she was under anesthesia (which the Scripture shows she was)--for Him to be the Babe conceived in her and to be born from her in the fullness of time through the birth channel.

This was not known or even imaginable as a possibility by the most fully informed human savant. So, rather than admitting, "I dunno," these pre-20th century theologians cooked up their own (incorrect) explanation and foisted it on an ignorant and credulous audience, proclaiming it is inconvertible dogma not to be argued with.

So there you are.

[imardmd1]

“May” is an English term used to represent the Greek subjunctive, but in English can represent either conditionality or purpose, so it is somewhat ambiguous in the English. But in the Greek it is very clear.

Wow! Thanks for this very clear exposition of this subjunctive usage in Greek!

I just never understood that the "may" or "might" used by the KJV translators does not admit of possibility, but rather a certainty of execution. In fact, my disciple has clearly indicated that the "may/might" could be struck out without changing the meaning to be obtained from the translation (although its presence must then indicate that the associated verb is in the subjunctive mood in the Greek).

Am I understanding you correctly, and thoroughly?

I wonder if Machen or Robertson or Mounce or Wallace have this idea somewhere in their grammar texts. If so, do you know where that would be found?

I am so impressed with this nugget of syntax! Thanks!

[Springfield Reformer]

Nope. I refuse to accept that God would contradict Himself. Your mileage may vary.

Peace,

SR

[Springfield Reformer]

Lovely Scriptures. If they advanced your point, that would be even nicer. Best of all would be if I could tell what your point was. Alas, I cannot. But thank you for the Biblical text. Always edifying.

Peace,

SR

[imardmd1]

. . . work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

From this verse, obviously one cannot "work out" a salvation one does not already possess, and the "fear" is to dread to disappoint or disobey the One Who alone has finished the act of saving.

Another way of saying this is that one is to work through, to process, the portion of progressive sanctification with a desire to avoid displeasing the One Whom one loves, and Whose Spirit is our intimate instructor.

[boatbums]

. . . work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. From this verse, obviously one cannot "work out" a salvation one does not already possess, and the "fear" is to dread to disappoint or disobey the One Who alone has finished the act of saving.

I think it is important that this verse DOESN'T say "work FOR your own salvation...". It always amazes me how so many people take snippets like this one and then try to directly contradict all the other verses that clearly teach us salvation is a gift of God by His grace which we receive through faith and not our works.

[Springfield Reformer]

Hi. What you’re saying sounds about right. I think it still needs some sort of helper in the English to get the sense across, so if “may/might” were struck, you’d have to still do something extra to clarify the exact shade of meaning. As for the standard Greek texts, it’s been a few years since I’ve been in one of those. I’m not sure where they’d talk about this.

Peace,

SR

[imardmd1]

You are, of course, correct here, in both ways.

[imardmd1]

Thanks. I guess it’s up to me to fully get a grasp on this. But it is a sweet thing to learn, and I’m grateful for your clarity.

[Mark17]

Hey bro. I have a Greek friend, here in the Philippines. In addition to Greek, he speaks Arabic, Hebrew, English, Spanish, French and Italian. I showed him John 3:15 in Greek, with the English translation below it. He said he felt uncomfortable with the word "may" He said it meant to him, something that was definitely going to happen, not some hopeful thought or wish.
By the way, I will be in California on Monday, for about a month. I don't like to leave my beloved here, but I will be back soon. 😎

[BlueDragon]

"...So here we simply must conclude our discussion, agreeing to disagree, the eternal stalemate that is always the result when we throw Sacred Tradition out the window. >>>"

But not teachings and tradition as was originally handed down.

What you are talking about are LATER DEVELOPMENTS.

You want to talk about eternal stalemate, well, there it is -- as I described it -- not as 'Catholics' of today would rhetorically approach the matter

[Elsie]

Jesus Christ venerated His Mother from His Cross. He also venerated Her at the wedding at Cana.

 

 

 

 

 

John 2:1-11 New American Standard Bible (NASB) 

1 On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there; ² and both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding.

³ When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus *said to Him, “They have no wine.”

⁴ And Jesus *said to her, “Woman, ^[a]what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come.”

⁵ His mother *said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it.”

⁶ Now there were six stone waterpots set there for the Jewish custom of purification, containing ^[b]twenty or thirty gallons each.

⁷ Jesus *said to them, “Fill the waterpots with water.” So they filled them up to the brim.

⁸ And He *said to them, “Draw some out now and take it to the ^[c]headwaiter.” So they took it to him.

⁹ When the headwaiter tasted the water which had become wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter *called the bridegroom, ¹⁰ and *said to him, “Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people have ^[d]drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.”

¹¹ This beginning of His ^[e]signs Jesus did in Cana of Galilee, and manifested His glory, and His disciples believed in Him.  I didn't see any.

 

 Veneration?  I see none.

---

 

John 19:25-27

Near the cross of Jesus stood his mother, his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to her, “Woman,^[b] here is your son,” and to the disciple, “Here is your mother.”

From that time on, this disciple took her into his home.

 

Veneration?  I see none.

[21twelve]

I always liked the miracle at Cana. Even Jesus needed a little bit of a kick in the butt from His mom! Although I bet she gave Him words of encouragement (”No time like the present! You can do it - I have faith in you.”) and not words of guilt (”Can’t you listen to your mother just ONCE? I do and do and do for you and you can’t even....oh, and the Angel said I’m blessed....and this is the kind of blessing I get? Oy Vey!) That last bit needs to be said in a New York City Jewish voice.

[Elsie]

If you knew what having faith in Jesus really means, you would realize Mary is really wonderful beyond measure. Her faith was unequalled.

If you'd only pay attention to the book the ECF assembled, and follow the instructions written therin; you'd not go BEYOND what they wrote.

---

Douay-Rheims Bible
Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

Luke 1:48

 

Looks like Mary failed to foresee all the OTHER stuff she'd be called by Catholics in all nations.