Posted on 02/20/2017 5:31:52 AM PST by metmom
A common question for many is, “Can I lose my salvation?” I’ve heard both sides of the argument, and only God truly knows a person’s heart, but I can share a few thoughts. The reason there is a debate is because the Scriptures teach that salvation is a gift from God that cannot be earned, but they also offer warnings about falling away. There should be a healthy tension between God’s sovereignty and man’s responsibility. This issue should not create a spirit of division, elitism, or theological superiority.
One school of thought suggests that salvation cannot be lost, as in losing your car keys, but that it can be left, as in walking away from it. This may be why Jesus spoke of the man who said in his heart “my master delays His coming; therefore, I will turn from living a godly life”. When the master returned unexpectedly, the servant was banished because he chose to turn from what he knew to be right.
In another passage, Jesus said, “You have left your first love,” when speaking to the church in Ephesus (Revelation 2:4). James 5:19-20 adds, if anyone wanders from the truth and someone turns him back, a soul is saved from death. If anything, these Scriptures, and many more, reinforce the fact that we have certain responsibilities.
(Excerpt) Read more at westsidechristianfellowship.org ...
But not all?
It is a compound sentence with a footnote in the middle. Some are predestined to life, the rest foreordained to death.
If Angels have no freewill, does God?
Answered in post 320.
What would be the purpose of entering into such a covenant if the outcome is preordained, since the only logical reason for doing so is to ensure both parties know and respect the bounds of said agreement/covenant, something counter to the idea of one party having free will while the other doesn't.
And if you do believe He makes such covenants, is He able to abolish them at mere whim, for no reason? If not, why not?
See post 284.
Well; according to the Book...
1 Corinthians 2:9
However, as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him.
Because God stands outside time and see what is happening at any point along that line, so to speak.
What or who sets them apart from the rest of humanity?
I don't know.<
Is there some characteristic that they have that is not from God that makes them special?
There's nothing we haven't received from God, except I suppose, our sin nature.
I’m not sure how what you have said agrees with Romans 8. It almost sounds like God is reactive rather than active.
If your faith is phony
NO, He’s proactive alright.
The whole salvation thing was His idea and He is the reason we even seek Him in the first place.
It’s He who works in us to will and to do according to his good pleasure.
I could answer them directly, but there was a group of much wiser theologians (despite what some may say, we are all theologians; some are wiser than others) than I who have studied this, and came to the following conclusions (with Biblical references):
If you can't answer it directly and must rely upon someone "wiser than you" to explain it, then sounds like we've went as far down this dead-end rabbit hole as we, or anyone else, can go.
Sorry, but I remain unconvinced everyone's destiny, both here and in the hereafter, is predetermined. Thanks for the ride on your merry-go-round. :)
amorphous,
I have not always been a Calvinist. In fact, I had similar issues with predestination versus free will. But as I studied it, I had to admit that I agreed that man is free to do within his nature, but his fallen nature is not inclined toward God, and only God can change a man’s nature. And God, by His Divine Will, will cause all things to happen for His Glory and the good of His elect.
Now, I don’t believe that election is an issue that one must believe for salvation. I believe unconditional election is plainly taught in the Bible, but is troubling to man. So I have no issue with those who may not agree.
I have answered plainly what I believe.
Thank you for the polite discourse on a difficult topic.
Grace and peace,
K51
I agree with what you just said. So, when does he start to work in us?
Considering our very breath is a gift from God, conception?
You’re not helping you case. :-)
Let me put it this way: has every person throughout time been given the opportunity to choose God? If so, please explain? If not, is it unfair for God to hold them accountable for their sins?
... your case.
Ditto. What you believe is what you believe, as long as you ensure it's a righteous one. ;)
Some do seem destine for the Almighty's purpose, but those are a handful, the exception, and the very righteous.
God bless!
What about the not_quite_as_righteous?
Look, for the most part I agree with most of Calvin doctrine. That man is depraved, that God has to call him and enlighten him to be saved, that man doesn’t truly have free will, etc.
The area I differ is that I think that it is God’s will that everyone be saved. God commands all men every where to repent. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, not just ours (1 John 2:2). After all, God created man for fellowship with Him. He WANTS fellowship with mankind.
So He provided a means and Jesus said, whosoever will may come.
It’s an open invitation to all mankind.
And yes, I do think that God gives everyone the opportunity at least ONCE in their lives to clearly see their need for Jesus and to repent of their sins and turn to Him.
I find the passage in Romans 9 interpreted as it is, to be too much like, *So what if you don’t like it? You don’t have to like it, you just have to shut up and take it. Who are you to talk back to God?*
Nor do I see it as just that God would demand something of someone, render them incapable of doing it, and then punishing them for not doing what they are incapable of doing.
If a human parent did that, it would be considered child abuse and it would damage a child living and growing up under those circumstances.
I KNOW God is a God of justice and that sin MUST be punished, but God’s portrayal of of Himself as a loving heavenly Father does not mesh with that kind of callous disregard for the soul who is going to suffer for eternity for rejecting Him.
He’s the loving Father who RUNS to meet the wayward son who returns, the Jesus who wept over Jerusalem. He’s loving and merciful and full of compassion. long suffering not willing that any perish but ALL come to repentance.
For those reasons, I don’t think the interpretation that God literally chooses to save some and not others but sends them to hell with no opportunity to turn to Him is the correct one.
I think He chose to save those whom He knew before hand would accept His offer of salvation should it be presented to them.
And what sets them apart?
I have no clue.
I am staggered and grateful that for whatever reason I am one of those who turned and repented. Considering Scripture indicates that most will be lost, the thought that I could have easily been one hell-bound almost terrifies me. It puts the fear of God in my heart like nothing else could and I am so grateful that He worked in my life to save me.
And with those thoughts, looks like another beautiful day on tap so another day of cleaning and such. Mr. mm and I have some projects to do around the house.
Later.....
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