Posted on 12/03/2017 3:25:35 PM PST by metmom
Studying God’s Word ping
and Christ personally founded a church, on His Apostles....remember???
>>Whenever someone confronts you by attacking the deity of Christ, be sure to defend the faith
A co-worker once told me, “We can’t discuss this as long as you insist that Jesus is God.”
I answered, “I can’t discuss this as long as you refuse to accept that he is.”
Matthew 16:18 - http://bible.cc/matthew/16-18.htm
Jesus said that Peter was *petros*(masculine) and that on this *petra*(feminine) He would build His church.
Greek: 4074 Pétros (a masculine noun) – properly, a stone (pebble), such as a small rock found along a pathway. 4074 /Pétros (”small stone”) then stands in contrast to 4073 /pétra (”cliff, boulder,” Abbott-Smith).
“4074 (Pétros) is an isolated rock and 4073 (pétra) is a cliff” (TDNT, 3, 100). “4074 (Pétros) always means a stone . . . such as a man may throw, . . . versus 4073 (pétra), a projecting rock, cliff” (S. Zodhiates, Dict).
4073 pétra (a feminine noun) – “a mass of connected rock,” which is distinct from 4074 (Pétros) which is “a detached stone or boulder” (A-S). 4073 (pétra) is a “solid or native rock, rising up through the earth” (Souter) – a huge mass of rock (a boulder), such as a projecting cliff.
4073 (petra) is “a projecting rock, cliff (feminine noun) . . . 4074 (petros, the masculine form) however is a stone . . . such as a man might throw” (S. Zodhiates, Dict).
It’s also a strange way to word the sentence that He would call Peter a rock and say that on this I will build my church instead of *on you* as would be grammatically correct in talking to a person.
There is no support from the original Greek that Peter was to be the rock on which Jesus said he would build His church. The nouns are not the same, one being masculine and the other being feminine. They denote different objects.
Also, here, Paul identifies who petra is, and that is Christ. This link takes you to the Greek.
http://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/10-4.htm
1 Corinthians 10:1-4 For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock (petra) that followed them, and the Rock (petra) was Christ.
http://biblehub.com/text/romans/9-33.htm
Romans 9:30-33 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, as it is written,“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock (petra) of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”
http://biblehub.com/text/1_peter/2-8.htm
1 Peter 2:1-8 So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation— if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good.
As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”
So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,
“The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,”
and
“A stone of stumbling, and a rock (petra) of offense.”
They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.
All occurrences of *petra* in the Greek.
There are preachers who don’t know Christ is God. I’ve known a few.
As a kid it confused me terribly that he was “The Son of God” and “God” at the same time. The trinity was the biggest hurdle for me.
It wasn’t till years later with reading and reading and reading that I finally accepted that God is just too complicated for me or anyone else to fully understand and you just have to have faith.
Actually you are totally wrong. See post 5, please.
Also note that Jesus said, “.... I will build my church, ...” Matt. 16:18. Just to be clear - not only did Jesus say that He would build His church on the REVEALED WORD OF GOD, He also said the He would build it.
Scripture interprets Scripture - a useful principal to remember. May you be blessed and grow in Christ by the study of God’s Word.
This doctrine is why the religious establishment and its true believers will not recognize him. He'll get tossed out on his ear or worse. The Gospel narratives repeat. He won't match expectations. I shouldn't joke about popcorn, but here comes Act II.
For sure.
Anyone who claims to understand stuff like that about God is just lying.
The finite cannot understand the infinite and people who think they have God all figured out has just created a God in their image to worship.
and so He did.....it started at the time of Christ and exists to this day.....doing quite well except for the little revolution 500 years ago.
That's true. It's also one of the ways we can know what are cults and false sects that call themselves Christian but aren't. Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and others deny that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh. Though they may claim they follow the Bible, it is evident that they do not know Scripture because God has made the Deity of Jesus Christ clear.
Do you have anything edifying to add on the actual TOPIC of this thread or do you only want to turn it into a Catholic vs. Protestant argument? You know, we agree with Catholics on this subject - you would think when there is an opportunity to agree you would rejoice and support it.
100% agree!
They claim to follow the Bible, but they lie a lot. Same with the Iglesia ni Cristo, and Quiboloy’s Church. They both deny the deity of Christ. Now, Quiboloy’s Church name, is about as long as a football field, so I don’t say it, but that fruitcake is still alive, and he outright claims he is the anointed son of God. Lightning may strike someday.
His church building, is just up Diversion Highway a bit, next to Francisco Bangoy Airport. The dude is a piece of work. Fortunately, there are not many members in that cult. Even the cult of the Iglesia ni Cristo, shun them. There are false religions everywhere, but we watch for them.
Sounds like you handled it about right bro. Don’t cast your pearls before swine. 😄
Just can’t help yourself. We have folks on FR denying the Deity of Jesus Christ yet you choose to play junior varsity sports.
Join in the Deity debate. You are Catholic and last I checked y’all defended the Deity of Christ too.
Now have a blessed day.
Are you Jehovah’s Witness?
I’m sure you won’t have any issues presenting your own Christology here for all to see.
Sniping don’t count.
Indeed. I will add Colossians 2:9 to JMs sermon posted by method:
Colossians 2:
8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
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