and Christ personally founded a church, on His Apostles....remember???
Matthew 16:18 - http://bible.cc/matthew/16-18.htm
Jesus said that Peter was *petros*(masculine) and that on this *petra*(feminine) He would build His church.
Greek: 4074 Pétros (a masculine noun) – properly, a stone (pebble), such as a small rock found along a pathway. 4074 /Pétros (”small stone”) then stands in contrast to 4073 /pétra (”cliff, boulder,” Abbott-Smith).
“4074 (Pétros) is an isolated rock and 4073 (pétra) is a cliff” (TDNT, 3, 100). “4074 (Pétros) always means a stone . . . such as a man may throw, . . . versus 4073 (pétra), a projecting rock, cliff” (S. Zodhiates, Dict).
4073 pétra (a feminine noun) – “a mass of connected rock,” which is distinct from 4074 (Pétros) which is “a detached stone or boulder” (A-S). 4073 (pétra) is a “solid or native rock, rising up through the earth” (Souter) – a huge mass of rock (a boulder), such as a projecting cliff.
4073 (petra) is “a projecting rock, cliff (feminine noun) . . . 4074 (petros, the masculine form) however is a stone . . . such as a man might throw” (S. Zodhiates, Dict).
It’s also a strange way to word the sentence that He would call Peter a rock and say that on this I will build my church instead of *on you* as would be grammatically correct in talking to a person.
There is no support from the original Greek that Peter was to be the rock on which Jesus said he would build His church. The nouns are not the same, one being masculine and the other being feminine. They denote different objects.
Also, here, Paul identifies who petra is, and that is Christ. This link takes you to the Greek.
http://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/10-4.htm
1 Corinthians 10:1-4 For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock (petra) that followed them, and the Rock (petra) was Christ.
http://biblehub.com/text/romans/9-33.htm
Romans 9:30-33 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, as it is written,“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock (petra) of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”
http://biblehub.com/text/1_peter/2-8.htm
1 Peter 2:1-8 So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation— if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good.
As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”
So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,
“The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,”
and
“A stone of stumbling, and a rock (petra) of offense.”
They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.
All occurrences of *petra* in the Greek.
Actually you are totally wrong. See post 5, please.
Also note that Jesus said, “.... I will build my church, ...” Matt. 16:18. Just to be clear - not only did Jesus say that He would build His church on the REVEALED WORD OF GOD, He also said the He would build it.
Scripture interprets Scripture - a useful principal to remember. May you be blessed and grow in Christ by the study of God’s Word.
Do you have anything edifying to add on the actual TOPIC of this thread or do you only want to turn it into a Catholic vs. Protestant argument? You know, we agree with Catholics on this subject - you would think when there is an opportunity to agree you would rejoice and support it.
Just can’t help yourself. We have folks on FR denying the Deity of Jesus Christ yet you choose to play junior varsity sports.
Join in the Deity debate. You are Catholic and last I checked y’all defended the Deity of Christ too.
Now have a blessed day.
And...? The Lord actually established His Truth claims upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power, as did the early church as it began upon this basis. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.)
And writing is God's chosen most-reliable means of preservation. ( Exodus 17:14; 34:1,27; Deuteronomy 10:4; 17:18; 27:3; 31:24; Joshua 1:8; 2 Chronicles 34:15,18-19; Psalm 19:7-11; 119; John 20:31; Acts 17:11; Revelation 1:1; 20:12, 15; Matthew 4:5-7; 22:29; Luke 24:44,45; Acts 17:11)
And as i abundantly evidenced , as written, Scripture became the transcendent supreme standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims as the wholly Divinely inspired and assured, Word of God. Thus the veracity of oral preaching subject to testing by Scripture, and not vice versa. (Acts 17:11)
It was not because oral tradition preserved the Word of God that brought about a national revival, but because of the wholly inspired-of-God written word:
And Hilkiah answered and said to Shaphan the scribe, I have found the book of the law in the house of the Lord. And Hilkiah delivered the book to Shaphan. (2 Chronicles 34:15)
Then Shaphan the scribe told the king, saying, Hilkiah the priest hath given me a book. And Shaphan read it before the king. And it came to pass, when the king had heard the words of the law, that he rent his clothes. (2 Chronicles 34:18-19)
“and Christ personally founded a church, on His Apostles....remember???”
I’ll correct your wording...
Jesus Christ founded His church on Himself though His apostles.
Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.
Oh that’s not enough Rock/God Holy Scriptures here I’ll give you a few more.
1 Corinthians 10:4
and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock (4073 [e], Petras) that accompanied them, and that rock (4073 [e], Petra) was Christ.
1 Peter 2:8
and, “A stone that causes people to stumble and a rock (4073 [e], Petra) that makes them fall.” They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.
Matthew 14:28
“Lord, if it’s you,” Peter (4074 [e], Petros) replied, “tell me to come to you on the water.”
Deuteronomy 32:15
Jeshurun grew fat and kicked; filled with food, they became heavy and sleek. They abandoned the God who made them and rejected the Rock their Savior.
Deuteronomy 32:18
You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth.
Deuteronomy 32:30
How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless the LORD had given them up?
Deuteronomy 32:31
For their rock is not like our Rock, as even our enemies concede.
Deuteronomy 32:37
He will say: “Now where are their gods, the rock they took refuge in,
1 Samuel 2:2
“There is no one holy like the LORD; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God.
2 Samuel 22:2
He said: “The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer;
2 Samuel 22:3
my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation. He is my stronghold, my refuge and my savior— from violent people you save me.
2 Samuel 22:32
For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?
2 Samuel 22:47
“The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be my God, the Rock, my Savior!
2 Samuel 23:3
The God of Israel spoke, the Rock of Israel said to me: ‘When one rules over people in righteousness, when he rules in the fear of God,
Psalm 18:2
The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.
Psalm 18:31
For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?
Psalm 18:46
The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior!
Psalm 19:14
May these words of my mouth and this meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.
Psalm 28:1
Of David. To you, LORD, I call; you are my Rock, do not turn a deaf ear to me. For if you remain silent, I will be like those who go down to the pit.
Psalm 31:2
Turn your ear to me, come quickly to my rescue; be my rock of refuge, a strong fortress to save me.
Psalm 31:3
Since you are my rock and my fortress, for the sake of your name lead and guide me.
Psalm 42:9
I say to God my Rock, “Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?”
Psalm 62:2
Truly he is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken.
Psalm 62:
Truly he is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken.
Psalm 62:7
My salvation and my honor depend on God; he is my mighty rock, my refuge.
Psalm 71:3
Be my rock of refuge, to which I can always go; give the command to save me, for you are my rock and my fortress.
Psalm 78:35
They remembered that God was their Rock, that God Most High was their Redeemer.
Psalm 89:26
He will call out to me, ‘You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.’
Psalm 92:15
proclaiming, “The LORD is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him.”
Psalm 94:22
But the LORD has become my fortress, and my God the rock in whom I take refuge.
Psalm 95:1
Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.
Psalm 144:1
Of David. Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.
Isaiah 8:1
He will be a holy place; for both Israel and Judah he will be a stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall. And for the people of Jerusalem he will be a trap and a snare.
Isaiah 17:10
You have forgotten God your Savior; you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress. Therefore, though you set out the finest plants and plant imported vines,
Isaiah 26:4
Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD himself, is the Rock eternal.
Isaiah 30:29
And you will sing as on the night you celebrate a holy festival; your hearts will rejoice as when people playing pipes go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel.
Isaiah 44:8
Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one.”
Isaiah 51:1
“Listen to me, you who pursue righteousness and who seek the LORD: Look to the rock from which you were cut and to the quarry from which you were hewn;
Habakkuk 1:12
LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, you will never die. You, LORD, have appointed them to execute judgment; you, my Rock, have ordained them to punish.
Question: how many Holy Scriptures does God have to write to convince a roman catholic that He/God is the Rock and not one of His servants.
Answer: Even God has His limits before He says enough is enough accept My Word or the consequences of Hell.
I disagree bro. Big surprise there, huh? 😀 Jesus founded His church on Himself. By the way bro, is it still true you have NO assurance of salvation? Best be careful not to end up in this place dude. 🔥 Praise God for Martin Luther and the Navigators. 🤣