Posted on 12/03/2017 3:25:35 PM PST by metmom
Jesus Christ’s Deity does not need defending. It needs to be believed and acted upon. There are personal serious eternal consequences if it is ignored or dishonored.
Amen
And...? The Lord actually established His Truth claims upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power, as did the early church as it began upon this basis. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.)
And writing is God's chosen most-reliable means of preservation. ( Exodus 17:14; 34:1,27; Deuteronomy 10:4; 17:18; 27:3; 31:24; Joshua 1:8; 2 Chronicles 34:15,18-19; Psalm 19:7-11; 119; John 20:31; Acts 17:11; Revelation 1:1; 20:12, 15; Matthew 4:5-7; 22:29; Luke 24:44,45; Acts 17:11)
And as i abundantly evidenced , as written, Scripture became the transcendent supreme standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims as the wholly Divinely inspired and assured, Word of God. Thus the veracity of oral preaching subject to testing by Scripture, and not vice versa. (Acts 17:11)
It was not because oral tradition preserved the Word of God that brought about a national revival, but because of the wholly inspired-of-God written word:
And Hilkiah answered and said to Shaphan the scribe, I have found the book of the law in the house of the Lord. And Hilkiah delivered the book to Shaphan. (2 Chronicles 34:15)
Then Shaphan the scribe told the king, saying, Hilkiah the priest hath given me a book. And Shaphan read it before the king. And it came to pass, when the king had heard the words of the law, that he rent his clothes. (2 Chronicles 34:18-19)
Belief in the Deity of Jesus Christ is fundamental to being a genuine Christian. In fact, Jesus said, "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." (John 8:24). If you notice the "he" is in italics which means the translators added it to the text. What Jesus was actually saying was if we do not believe He is I AM, we will die in our sins. The LORD God's personal name is "I AM" (See Exodus 3:14).
Jesus also said, "For many will come in My name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many." (Matthew 24:5) and "Many will come in My name, claiming, 'I am He,' and will deceive many." (Mark 13:6). I think he was talking about people like Quiboloy and others. Some people claim that Jesus never claimed to be God, but they have to ignore a lot of Scripture to do it.
“God is just too complicated for me or anyone else to fully understand and you just have to have faith.”
There’s a saying about that.
Try to understand the Trinity and lose your mind.
Don’t accept the Trinity and lose your soul.
**You know, we agree with Catholics on this subject - you would think when there is an opportunity to agree you would rejoice and support it.**
Really? I thought that the RCs believe that the flesh of the Son is just as much God as his spirit. If Protestants believe that the flesh of the Son is God, then they are admitting that Mary is the mother of God.
“and Christ personally founded a church, on His Apostles....remember???”
I’ll correct your wording...
Jesus Christ founded His church on Himself though His apostles.
Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.
Oh that’s not enough Rock/God Holy Scriptures here I’ll give you a few more.
1 Corinthians 10:4
and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock (4073 [e], Petras) that accompanied them, and that rock (4073 [e], Petra) was Christ.
1 Peter 2:8
and, “A stone that causes people to stumble and a rock (4073 [e], Petra) that makes them fall.” They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.
Matthew 14:28
“Lord, if it’s you,” Peter (4074 [e], Petros) replied, “tell me to come to you on the water.”
Deuteronomy 32:15
Jeshurun grew fat and kicked; filled with food, they became heavy and sleek. They abandoned the God who made them and rejected the Rock their Savior.
Deuteronomy 32:18
You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth.
Deuteronomy 32:30
How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless the LORD had given them up?
Deuteronomy 32:31
For their rock is not like our Rock, as even our enemies concede.
Deuteronomy 32:37
He will say: “Now where are their gods, the rock they took refuge in,
1 Samuel 2:2
“There is no one holy like the LORD; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God.
2 Samuel 22:2
He said: “The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer;
2 Samuel 22:3
my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation. He is my stronghold, my refuge and my savior— from violent people you save me.
2 Samuel 22:32
For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?
2 Samuel 22:47
“The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be my God, the Rock, my Savior!
2 Samuel 23:3
The God of Israel spoke, the Rock of Israel said to me: ‘When one rules over people in righteousness, when he rules in the fear of God,
Psalm 18:2
The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.
Psalm 18:31
For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?
Psalm 18:46
The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior!
Psalm 19:14
May these words of my mouth and this meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.
Psalm 28:1
Of David. To you, LORD, I call; you are my Rock, do not turn a deaf ear to me. For if you remain silent, I will be like those who go down to the pit.
Psalm 31:2
Turn your ear to me, come quickly to my rescue; be my rock of refuge, a strong fortress to save me.
Psalm 31:3
Since you are my rock and my fortress, for the sake of your name lead and guide me.
Psalm 42:9
I say to God my Rock, “Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?”
Psalm 62:2
Truly he is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken.
Psalm 62:
Truly he is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken.
Psalm 62:7
My salvation and my honor depend on God; he is my mighty rock, my refuge.
Psalm 71:3
Be my rock of refuge, to which I can always go; give the command to save me, for you are my rock and my fortress.
Psalm 78:35
They remembered that God was their Rock, that God Most High was their Redeemer.
Psalm 89:26
He will call out to me, ‘You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.’
Psalm 92:15
proclaiming, “The LORD is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him.”
Psalm 94:22
But the LORD has become my fortress, and my God the rock in whom I take refuge.
Psalm 95:1
Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.
Psalm 144:1
Of David. Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.
Isaiah 8:1
He will be a holy place; for both Israel and Judah he will be a stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall. And for the people of Jerusalem he will be a trap and a snare.
Isaiah 17:10
You have forgotten God your Savior; you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress. Therefore, though you set out the finest plants and plant imported vines,
Isaiah 26:4
Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD himself, is the Rock eternal.
Isaiah 30:29
And you will sing as on the night you celebrate a holy festival; your hearts will rejoice as when people playing pipes go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel.
Isaiah 44:8
Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one.”
Isaiah 51:1
“Listen to me, you who pursue righteousness and who seek the LORD: Look to the rock from which you were cut and to the quarry from which you were hewn;
Habakkuk 1:12
LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, you will never die. You, LORD, have appointed them to execute judgment; you, my Rock, have ordained them to punish.
Question: how many Holy Scriptures does God have to write to convince a roman catholic that He/God is the Rock and not one of His servants.
Answer: Even God has His limits before He says enough is enough accept My Word or the consequences of Hell.
What makes you you? Can you be separated from your physical body on this earth and remain you? Jesus, the Second person of the Trinity/the Son of God, has always existed but it was when He took on human flesh (what "incarnated" means) He became the God-man. He was two natures (human and divine) and never stopped BEING God. Mary gave birth to the physical flesh and blood body which was indwelt by the Divine Son of God. Jesus, for all eternity will now be in His glorified body - a body that our own bodies will be like when we are resurrected to eternal life.
The objection to the title for Mary as "Mother of God" has to do with it not ever being a term used by Scripture and it can cause confusion over Mary pre-existing Jesus as "mother" infers she came before the person she gave birth to. Mary gave birth to the flesh and blood human body Jesus took on. I know that Catholics don't really believe Mary gave birth to the Godhead. Some, however, have used that term to exalt Mary above what place she has in the Scriptures and it has led to numerous errors regarding her powers and influence with God. I personally admire and honor her for her courage and faith and see her as a wonderful example for all Christians to emulate.
How about you? Do you believe in the Deity of Jesus Christ?
That’s what the Iglesia ni Cristo does. I call them the Iglesia ni Manalo. I just say, you know, I don’t speak Tagalog, but I DO speak, read and write English extremely well. I read the New Testament. Someone who says that Jesus Christ never claimed to be God, is like you, standing outside at high noon 🕛 and telling me the sun isn’t shining. With that, I usually end the conversation, cuz it just goes downhill from there.
As far is Quiboloy is concerned, google earth, to see Francisco Bangoy International Airport. On the right side, you can read Davao, life is here. You can read it, because it’s on the side of a hill. Proceeding out the exit road from the airport, you can see an octagon shaped building. That is their place of worship, using the term rather loosely. To the left of that is a long rectangular shaped, white roofed building. That is Quiboloy’s college, Jose Maria College. Just to the north, you can see Quiboloy’s sports amphitheater under construction. You can see a street view of it too. It’s a cult, with a capital C.
I disagree bro. Big surprise there, huh? 😀 Jesus founded His church on Himself. By the way bro, is it still true you have NO assurance of salvation? Best be careful not to end up in this place dude. 🔥 Praise God for Martin Luther and the Navigators. 🤣
There are some who claim to believe in Jesus and yet the Jesus they preach is NOT the one presented in Scripture.
If you are believing in the wrong Jesus, then it’s not going to help you one iota to *believe* in him.
Yes, these false religions bring a false gospel, and with it, a false Jesus. That is why we call them false religions. 😁😀
As regards the oft-quoted Mt. 16:18, note the following Early Church Fathers promise in the profession of faith of Vatican 1:
• Basil of Seleucia, Oratio 25:
'You are Christ, Son of the living God.'...Now Christ called this confession a rock, and he named the one who confessed it 'Peter,' perceiving the appellation which was suitable to the author of this confession. For this is the solemn rock of religion, this the basis of salvation, this the wall of faith and the foundation of truth: 'For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Christ Jesus.' To whom be glory and power forever. — Oratio XXV.4, M.P.G., Vol. 85, Col. 296-297.
• Bede, Matthaei Evangelium Expositio, 3:
You are Peter and on this rock from which you have taken your name, that is, on myself, I will build my Church, upon that perfection of faith which you confessed I will build my Church by whose society of confession should anyone deviate although in himself he seems to do great things he does not belong to the building of my Church...Metaphorically it is said to him on this rock, that is, the Saviour which you confessed, the Church is to be built, who granted participation to the faithful confessor of his name. — 80Homily 23, M.P.L., Vol. 94, Col. 260. Cited by Karlfried Froehlich, Formen, Footnote #204, p. 156 [unable to verify by me].
• Cassiodorus, Psalm 45.5:
'It will not be moved' is said about the Church to which alone that promise has been given: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I shall build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.' For the Church cannot be moved because it is known to have been founded on that most solid rock, namely, Christ the Lord. — Expositions in the Psalms, Volume 1; Volume 51, Psalm 45.5, p. 455
• Chrysostom (John) [who affirmed Peter was a rock, but here not the rock in Mt. 16:18]:
Therefore He added this, 'And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church; that is, on the faith of his confession. — Chrysostom, Homilies on the Gospel of Saint Matthew, Homily LIIl; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf110.iii.LII.html)
• Cyril of Alexandria:
When [Peter] wisely and blamelessly confessed his faith to Jesus saying, 'You are Christ, Son of the living God,' Jesus said to divine Peter: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church.' Now by the word 'rock', Jesus indicated, I think, the immoveable faith of the disciple.”. — Cyril Commentary on Isaiah 4.2.
• Origen, Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII):
“For a rock is every disciple of Christ of whom those drank who drank of the spiritual rock which followed them, 1 Corinthians 10:4 and upon every such rock is built every word of the church, and the polity in accordance with it; for in each of the perfect, who have the combination of words and deeds and thoughts which fill up the blessedness, is the church built by God.'
“For all bear the surname ‘rock’ who are the imitators of Christ, that is, of the spiritual rock which followed those who are being saved, that they may drink from it the spiritual draught. But these bear the surname of rock just as Christ does. But also as members of Christ deriving their surname from Him they are called Christians, and from the rock, Peters.” — Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII), sect. 10,11 ( http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/101612.htm)
• Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II):
Thus our one immovable foundation, our one blissful rock of faith, is the confession from Peter's mouth, Thou art the Son of the living God. On it we can base an answer to every objection with which perverted ingenuity or embittered treachery may assail the truth."-- (Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II), para 23; Philip Schaff, editor, The Nicene & Post Nicene Fathers Series 2, Vol 9.
Is there something in the water over there?
I’ve told you a million times not to exaggerate!
If so; a poor one.
A TRUE JW would NOT be interacting with the rest of us deceived, deluded and probably demonic folks, in such a public manner.
He on to that scam. He gets on Twitter to tell it like it is, and is essentially accused of sniping, lacking self-control, being unpresidential and/or mentally unstable or whatever.
Sad.
Matthew 11
16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
I work with two JWs. They have very strange beliefs and don’t seem to really want to talk about it. I think they avoid people who actually read the bible.
**What makes you you? Can you be separated from your physical body on this earth and remain you?**
The body is just a tabernacle. To live in the physical world it’s mandatory. There are tabernacles that have been vaporized. Since there will be neither man nor woman in the resurrection, the body will certainly be different. The soul is the person.
**Jesus, the Second person of the Trinity**
For folks that claim to be sola scriptura, the use of unscriptural terms and phrases, seems mandatory. The scriptures do not label God and his attributes in a silly multi-numerical fashion. Read throughout, and you see that God’s number is ONE.
**/the Son of God**
Correct. There is no phrase “God the Son” in the scriptures. You’re not Free Republic the boatbums, you’re boatbums OF Free Republic. The Son’s own testimony is that he received everything, even his life, from the Father:
“For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself”. John 5:26
The Son said his very words were not his, but the Father’s. The scriptures do not say otherwise.
Why the confusion? Because reformers didn’t reform everything that was distorted. (The truth has always been, but few there be that find it)
To try to separate the Father from the Son, one will have to rightly divide the two....... scripturally. And the only way to scripturally divide them is to show divine power (the Father), and creation (the Son, the firstborn of every creature).
The Son only had power to create by the Father. Read Isaiah 42:1-7 and tell me who is talking to who. And who is taking credit for creation in verse 5.
Read 1Cor. 8:6......slowly...... and realize that “there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things...” (remember, the Son is “of” God), “..and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ...” (remember? The firstborn of every creature) “..., by whom are all things, and we by him.”
Who made the Son both “Lord and Christ”? Peter didn’t go into some numerical description of God, like the false teachers today do. He simply said that God made him both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36).
** has always existed but it was when He took on human flesh (what “incarnated” means) He became the God-man.**
“God-man”?? An unscriptural term is needed to support a teaching? But, trinitarians also use the unscriptural phrase “God the Son”, as though Jesus Christ and his apostles didn’t explain things sufficiently.
It is so much easier to just stay in the scriptures for definition. Jesus Christ taught that he was in the Father, and the Father in him,..... literally. He pointed to the Father as the source of all things divine.
**He was two natures (human and divine) and never stopped BEING God. Mary gave birth to the physical flesh and blood body which was indwelt by the Divine Son of God. Jesus, for all eternity will now be in His glorified body - a body that our own bodies will be like when we are resurrected to eternal life.**
With your separate and distinct persons theology, where is the Father not at?
God is capable of filling a human body and still being omnipresent.
Or do you think that the whole of God could be confined to within a human body?
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