Posted on 04/19/2018 8:45:00 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Jeshua disagrees.
"I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven." -Luke 10:18
Joooooz
This Rabbi is a fool. Instead of just stating what Jews believe he starts out by mischaracterizing and denigrating Christianity. How does that help anything?
They've been provided a chance at salvation as those who believe in Christ after his crucifixion, resurrection and before the judgment.
Every single Rabbi I have ever talked to starts the conversation the same way.
They break down first what you hold evident, then they fill in the spaces with their views.
I’m not anti-semitic. It’s just something that people do when they want to convert you to their ways.
Oy-vey. This guy needs to go back to Torah school.
I once saw an explanation of that, I don't recall where and when or the full text/context of it. It stated that Christ after His death and before the resurrection offered salvation to the souls of those who had not known Him, and those who accepted His sacrifice would be saved. As in life, an evil soul would reject Him, and a sinful but righteous soul (since ALL have sinned) would accept Him.
Loving and forgiving, slow to anger, rich in kindness...partially remembered from a hymn.
This is almost to the level of denying that there is evil in this world.
Let’s look at the book of Job. Was Satan the proctor in an exam. No, Satan wanted Job to fail, to curse G*d and die.
This is what sin meant then, and therefore its real meaning now. Few understands this! Try to understand this if you don't already. REAL-ize this! It's implications are rather profound, especially as it is counter to the collective-agreement-meaning most carry with them when they use the term internally or externally.
It means 'you shot your arrow, and you missed the bulls eye.' Period. Maybe you envisioned a target that was not the target, or maybe you just suck at aiming (bad character), or maybe you just aren't perfect (original sin.) Anything additional including judgement or the tacking on of ancillary attributes such as 'good' or 'bad' is embellishment, narrative, story and hence lies of commission or omission when compared to the truth as it actually is - as God created it - as opposed to the dramatic story in our heads.
Life in a universe that was there before you were, and out of which you are made and hence inherited all its attributes and are connected to all of it, is really quite simple, though I admit it doesn't always appear that way. It is the appearance that is the lie. The appearance is 'The World,' yes it is fallen, but it's not real. The original sin is to mistake The World - the appearance - for 'the world' as it was created, and simply is.
All sins - pride, greed etc. etc. etc. find a common root: The sufferer (and committer) mistakes The World for the world, acts as though The World were the world, and in doing so, shoots off arrows in every crazy direction like a Samurai in an LSD hallucination. His behavior makes no sense to anyone except perhaps his fellows caught up in the same collective hallucination. That is the default state of human existence, and why history, as Steyn has said, is an ongoing cycle of farce followed by farce followed by tragedy.
Satan? He neither cheers the human nor hates the human. He stands by snickering, but not malignantly so. He didn't cause any of it, unless you were to say 'Satan, thy name is ignorance, blindness and delusion - and further - the will to remain so!'
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“Lets look at the book of Job. Was Satan the proctor in an exam. No, Satan wanted Job to fail, to curse G*d and die.”
No, in the Book of Job, Satan is charged with challenging Job’s faith by every means possible. He/it had the task of being very tough, of stripping away everything that Job knew, had or loved, so as to get to the essential Job. God knew that Job was faithful, but he had to be tested to prove it, and also to serve as a positive example to other people.
By the way, the Jewish concept of Hell is being without God in the World to Come (i.e. the afterlife or Heaven). There is no “Evil Central,” which sits there and plans to do evil and tempt humans...evil is just what our base nature leads us to do, from the standpoint of pure pleasure/self-interest. Having a physical body and physical needs, we are almost constantly tempted to stray from the ideals that God set forth for us...but that temptation is the very purpose of Creation - to allow us to exercise Free Will by having real choices. Without Free Will, there is simply no point to existence.
“What about the billions...”
I guess they’d wind up in that Sheol thing. Not so much a “condemnation”, but a lack of salvation according to the new covenant.
Note, “new” implies there was once “old” which also implies some finite amount of elapsed time before everyone gets the memo.
I think the heavenly bean-counters administrated the uninformed souls of this transition period with “purgatory”.
rjsimmon: Jeshua disagrees. “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.” -Luke 10:18
Luke was following a false Messiah so who cares what he says.
Or maybe it's more that they want to establish a distance -- to make it clear to you that you won't convert them.
Just as Christians often tell Jews where they think they went wrong, Jews do the same thing to Christians.
It may make you bristle if you're not used to it, but I don't think the rabbi overdoes it here.
Also, Judaism has been around for a long time and doesn't always give clear answers.
Sometimes the rabbi's real argument may be with other Jews.
Nope. Jesus IS the Messiah. He proved that time and again.
So God can never be angry, because He made everything happen, correct?
It’s been my observation that Jews don’t need original sin to feel guilty, LOL.
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