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To: SeekAndFind

I do not understand why it is that so many people (mainly Christians) cannot themselves understand that God can have one covenant with the Jews, and another one with them (and it is really part of the same, original covenant).

First, what IS a covenant? It is, simplified, a Holy contract. It is between God and people. The people involved, being people (which is to say, very imperfect) will oftentimes violate that covenant. God, being literally the only perfect being in existence, will never break His word and will, in fact, show mercy to us mere humans in certain circumstances.

Now, since a covenant is a contract (albeit a special type of contract), how is it that ANYONE can say that God is only permitted one such contract at a time. After all, we humans oftentimes have more than one contract in operation at a time...and we’re just humans. We can have a contract with the mortgage company, the car finance company, the company for which we work, the lawn care company, the life insurance company, etc., etc. So why can’t God? I see no reason, and I defy anyone to produce actual evidence - from God, Himself - that such is impossible.

Now, assuming that God can enter into more than one contract/covenant at a time, why is it so farfetched of an idea that He could have one eternal covenant with the Jewish People (and there is very ample evidence that He not only entered into it, but that it is beyond revocation based on His words), and another with some group of non-Jews (let’s pick some group at random, say those who believe that the Jew named Jesus (in Greek) who was born in Bethlehem circa 7 B.C. to a mother named Mary (much more likely Miriam) is the Messiah). Well, there you go - two covenants for two peoples.

FWIW, I believe that it is all part of the SAME covenant - the series of promises that God made throughout the Hebrew Tanach (the Five Books of Moses). In the chapter in Genesis dealing with Noah and the Flood, God promises that anyone who followed 7 basic rules would have a place in the world to come (i.e. Heaven). There were no Jews at the time (Abraham was 10 generations after Noah), and those who are not Jews are not obligated to abide by those extra duties that Jews have - so the Noahide Laws and the covenant that goes with them are STILL OPERABLE. The advent of Christianity, as created by Paul and other followers of Jesus over time, can very easily be seen as a means to teach large numbers of non-Jews how to abide by the 7 Noahide Laws, and thereby gain a place in Heaven.

Just my $0.02 - anyone is, of course, free to disagree. But just keep in mind that God is merciful, and wants to give His children every chance to earn a place beside Him...and that because we are all different from each other, He likely gave us many ways of getting there.


12 posted on 05/17/2018 9:45:42 AM PDT by Ancesthntr ("The right to buy weapons is the right to be free." A. E. van Vogt)
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To: Ancesthntr

Basic rules, but too much is invested in arguing dogma. That could be interpreted as an anything goes attitude, that truth is not valued or defended, but that assumes dogma is truth.

Heh, I just took one look at the word dogma and it says, “go mad”.

That about sums it up. Jesus went around pointing out simple stuff, and the Establishment flipped out when he attempted to correct their dogma and assumptions.

He wasn’t blaspheming because he wasn’t claiming to be God, he showed how a man can forgive sins (when they thought only God could do that), and that “son of David” (or Abraham) doesn’t just mean a genetic line, it’s about character - mainly love and mercy.

He certainly wasn’t a pushover. He’d had it with the MSM of his day, always setting him up for Gotcha! traps under the pretext of sincere questions or heresy checks.

The message is as simple as saying “I love you” or “It’s okay.” But that doesn’t work when people exploit love and mercy to beat others down. Sometimes people treat their own family members way worse than strangers because the attitude is, “Hey we’re family, you’re supposed to forgive me”. Free license to abuse in the name of family means somebody missed the memo.

The Redemption is all about dumping the dead weight and starting to actually live, starting from scratch. Not any new rule, but understanding the old. Back to basics. The one covenant is really the Din Shamayaim, the higher law of conscience and consideration for others.

Can it ever be written down and codified? With any law or contract, the second it is put into writing there is a line created. But the line is easily blurred by circumstances or lack of precision, and people set on law-breaking will find a way to skirt the spirit of the law or covenant by using the letter of the law to claim innocence.

Then a new line is needed, and the process repeats forever until one day people wake up and realize that they are in a bondage of their own making. If they wake up and see the problem.

The solution floats over and above all the covenants. God is a spirit. Heart/mind/soul. There’s the connection point (gate of Heaven).

Maybe my reply doesn’t seem to relate to your post or the thread topic. It does though because the entire concept of eternal covenants supersedes all the debates about the covenants. Truth is one truth, and truth never changes.

The Medes and the Persians claimed that their laws couldn’t be changed. Achashverosh still found a way to negate the law, by making one that would supersede the other, such that in practical terms the decree to destroy the Jews was made null and void. Not by the letter, but another way that involved the reality on the ground.


23 posted on 05/17/2018 12:43:01 PM PDT by Ezekiel (All who mourn(ed!) the destruction of America merit the celebration of her rebirth.)
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