Posted on 06/08/2018 8:54:57 AM PDT by Salvation
“It’s not recorded anywhere where Jesus told His disciples to write with the clear exception of John on Patmos.”
A point of correction here.
You might learn to read a bit closer:
“sending his angel to his servant John”
1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants[a] what must soon take place; he made[b] it known by sending his angel to his servant[c] John, 2 who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.
True and there are plenty of commands in the OT by God to write things down.
Writing down the words of God is the perfect way to keep an accurate record of what was said.
You can ALWAYS go back tot he original and see what it says. It’s far more reliable than word of mouth.
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades. Write therefore the things that you have seen, those that are and those that are to take place after this.
Jesus is speaking here.
The first and the last, the one who died and alive evermore.
That is NO angel.
You might want to read a bit further on.
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet 11 saying, “Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”
12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 The hairs of his head were white, like white wool, like snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire, 15 his feet were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the roar of many waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth came a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength.
17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, 18 and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.”
Yep, it’s Jesus speaking who ordered John to write, unless you think that some angel did all that.
Well now if Christ were speaking here then the Book of Revelation would be the Gospel of Revelation wouldn’t it?
The Angel told John what to write, and so he spoke the words given by Christ.
Christ never told his disciples to write Scripture, he told them to teach and preach all that I have taught you.
Works show living faith.
this is pretty much what Msgr Pope said pages ago and everyone here has been arguing about.
***
The argument boils down to: Do works save, or are works the result of being saved?
And it’s a very important question; enough that entire books of the New Testament were written to answer it.
At a different time in Revelation and angel did command John to write some things down.
But here in chapter 1, it's Jesus Himself.
It's there in plain clear words and if you have an issue with that, then therer's really nothing anyone can say to convince you.
If the word of God doesn't do it, nothing else will.
Admitting you were wrong is not the and of the world. It's the end of pride and self-deception.
Christ never told his disciples to write Scripture, he told them to teach and preach all that I have taught you.
***
Which words in Scripture are contrary to what the Apostles taught?
“Christ never told his disciples to write Scripture...”
Considering most of what went on between Christ and His disciples wasn’t recorded, how do you figure you can say that you know that to be true?
And quite interesting that for that claim, you’re relying on what was recorded in the very Scripture that you say that you know Christ didn’t tell them to write.
And what is the point to your claim about New Testament Scripture? Are you saying you don’t believe it’s legitimately God’s Word?
well....that’s what happens when you’re late to the party, you don’t know the basis of the discussion and then jump to ridiculous charges.
In post #24 I wrote:
Scripture was defined and compiled via tradition.
Christ never told his disciples to write anything, he told them to preach.
What concerns us here is the detachment of faith from works that the phrase “faith alone” implies. Let me ask, what is faith without works?
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. (Romans 4:4-8)
Beware the "we gotta help Godists".
Seriously, you wrote that?
Scripture was defined and compiled via tradition.
Christ never told his disciples to write anything, he told them to preach.
***
Now that’s funny.
The word ‘canon’ comes from a measure, or a rule with which to measure against something else.
If you say that Scripture was compiled according to ‘tradition,’ that means that they only put things into it that matched what they had been taught: IE, canon.
And now you’re getting upset at us that we’re using this measure to test Rome’s theology, and Rome’s theology is coming up so painfully short that you have to argue AGAINST the Scripture that YOU claimed that they assembled.
You have to see it to believe it, don't you?
And lemmee tell you, that title made me cringe. The condescending attitude just drips off of it.
Are you presuming that because it was a "Catholic" Bible that got printed on a printing press in the mid 1500's, it negated that Scripture is the word of God and is our rule of faith? You DO know, I hope, that the word of God really did exist long before that event, right??? What would be hysterically funny is if Catholics think the Gutenberg Bible is a different Bible! Sorry, honey, that doesn't disprove sola Scriptura.
Very good points. Here’s another. The believers knew from the time they received the letters which ones were from Paul, which from Peter, which from John, etc. The Councils did not *establish* which letters and Gospels were authentic. Rather, they codified/officialized what was *already* known and accepted among the believers.
Now iirc, there was a genuine debate re James. However, the Holy Spirit oversaw that debate and ensured that it concluded with the right decision.
My Church History class was a long time ago. :)
It was Catholic bishops, in union with the Pope, who made the decision as to which books belonged in the Bible. The early Christians could not possibly have lived by sola scriptura because the Scriptures were not even fully written in the earliest years. And although collected and largely completed in written form by 100 AD, the set of books and letters that actually made up the New Testament was not agreed upon until the 4th century.
The Roman Catholic church did not formalize their canon until Trent.
For 1500 years Rome did not have a definitive set of books they could call their canon.
And, because so much bad theology around Mary, purgatory, etc had been established well after the original Apostles had died, they elevated man-made "Tradition" to be equal to that of Scripture.
What is very telling about Trent is Rome did not incorporate so many of the books they pulled their false doctrines from into the canon when they had the chance. That they didn't is telling and should concern a Roman Catholic.
Mormonism would copy this formula some 300 or so years later when they included their "sacred books" as being equal to that of inspired Scripture.
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