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To: HarleyD

A friend of mine who is a Calvinist made a good point that I have yet to give a solid rebuttal to. As Protestants we hold that Christ did it all for our salvation and there is nothing we can do to earn it. If this statement is true then it follow that if we choose Christ we have done something to earn our salvation.


7 posted on 08/19/2018 1:27:42 PM PDT by LukeL
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To: LukeL
A friend of mine who is a Calvinist made a good point that I have yet to give a solid rebuttal to. As Protestants we hold that Christ did it all for our salvation and there is nothing we can do to earn it. If this statement is true then it follow that if we choose Christ we have done something to earn our salvation.

Poor argument as Christ told us to believe Him.

19 posted on 08/19/2018 1:43:10 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: LukeL

Here is the question: Do you want a solid rebuttal or do you want to believe what he believes?

Here is a rebuttal that is accepted by people who sincerely want the answer and I offer it to you but not to him:

“Trusting the One who did it all, is NOT doing part of it!”


20 posted on 08/19/2018 1:50:30 PM PDT by BDParrish (One representative for every 30,000 persons!)
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To: LukeL
A friend of mine who is a Calvinist made a good point that I have yet to give a solid rebuttal to. As Protestants we hold that Christ did it all for our salvation and there is nothing we can do to earn it. If this statement is true then it follow that if we choose Christ we have done something to earn our salvation.

All's I know is this...and I am getting this from St. Augustine himself. We know that BOTH God is sovereign AND that the will is free. That we are judged by our actions, even though we cannot act save by the grace of God.

This is what St. Augustine taught; this is the Catholic and Apostolic faith.

See Letter 214 and Letter 215 to Valentinus.

21 posted on 08/19/2018 1:50:54 PM PDT by Claud
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To: LukeL; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer; kinsman redeemer; BlueDragon; metmom; boatbums; ...

Man could not and would not believe on the Lord Jesus or follow Him unless God gave him life, and breath, and all good things he has, (Acts 17:25) and convicted him, (Jn. 16:8) drew him, (Jn. 6:44; 12:32) opened his heart, (Acts 16:14) and granted repentance (Acts 11:18) and gave faith, (Eph. 2:8,9) and then worked in him both to will and to do of His good pleasure the works He commands them to do. (Phil. 2:13; Eph. 2:10)

Thus man owes to God all things, ( (1 Chronicles 29:14; 1 Corinthians 4:7) and in conversion enables and motivates man to do what he otherwise would not and would not do, and while man is guilty and rightly damned for resisting God contrary to the level of grace given him, (Prov. 1:20-31; Lk. 10:13; 12:48; Rv. 20:11-15) - which disobedience is the only thing man can take credit — under grace (which denotes unmerited favor) God has chosen to reward faith, (Heb. 10:35) in recognition of its effects, which obedience (again) God both enabled and motivated.

And which means that God justifies man without the merit of any works, which is what Romans 4:1-7ff teaches, with “works of the law” including all systems of justification by actually properly meriting it by works, “for, if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.” (Galatians 3:21)

Thus the penitent publican and the contrite criminal, both of whom abased themselves as damned and destitute sinners and cast all their faith upon the mercy of God (which ultimately is Christ), were justified, and as such could go directly to be with the Lord at death, even before they did any manifest works of faith. However, saving faith effects obedience by the Spirit, (Romans 8:12-14) and justify one as being a believer, and fit to be rewarded under grace for such, (Mt. 25:30-40; Rv. 3:4) though only because God has decided to reward man for what He Himself is to be actually properly credited for.


28 posted on 08/19/2018 2:32:28 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: LukeL
If this statement is true then it follow that if we choose Christ we have done something to earn our salvation.

There is your theological error. We don't choose Christ. We are chosen by God.

How can a dead person choose anyone or anything?

Look at Ephesians 1:1-10. Verses 4 and 5 in particular: "But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—"

30 posted on 08/19/2018 3:40:56 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: LukeL
If this statement is true then it follow that if we choose Christ we have done something to earn our salvation.

BINGO!!! We cannot make a choice. Joh 6:44  No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. 

Verses like these are litered throughout John and Romans. In fact I could never understand these books until I came to the understanding that God does the choosing.

This is a very hard thing for most people to accept. Yet if you ask ANY true Christian for their testimony it will contain "I was going off the deep end BUT God...." In the end every true believer will acknowledge it was God who brought them to a saving knowledge of Christ. Test it out on yourself. I know it was God who brought me to a saving knowledge in Him. I only prayed a prayer AFTER I realized I was a sinner in need of a Savior.

I would suggest you read the Westminster Confession of Faith which is the foundation of Protestant beliefs. The London Baptist Confession of Faith created a few years earlier is virtually the same.

47 posted on 08/19/2018 6:06:26 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: LukeL
The act of choosing anything involves a confluence of biases, motivations, causes and circumstances that is quickly beyond my comprehension. I know that God created everything good. I know that the Sin of my father's and me has corrupted everything. And I know that Jesus alone makes all things new.

Revelation 21:5 
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful

64 posted on 08/20/2018 3:13:09 AM PDT by Theophilus (Repent)
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To: LukeL
A friend of mine who is a Calvinist made a good point that I have yet to give a solid rebuttal to. As Protestants we hold that Christ did it all for our salvation and there is nothing we can do to earn it. If this statement is true then it follow that if we choose Christ we have done something to earn our salvation.

Luk_18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

What did this guy do to earn salvation???

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Calling on the Lord's name to ask for forgiveness is 'earning it'???

Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved

Is believing on Jesus Christ earning salvation???

85 posted on 08/21/2018 6:51:48 PM PDT by Iscool
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