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To: Pilgrim's Progress

As I take it your entire theory there rests on associating Jesus’ words with Exodus 3:14?

That cannot be done because God did not tell Moses that “I am” (hayah in Hebrew), he told Moses “I will be what I will be” (ehyeh vehyeh). So the association just isn’t there. Translators render it as “I am” because they are taught to in order to provide the hook for their fellow Trinitarians to hang the argument you make on.

By the way, They also mistranslate John 1:1 as well. The current theory is that the “theos’ in that passage is qualitative instead of a factual statement. So, the correct translation according to the theory would be “and the Word was godlike,” which they use the sort of sophistry Dr. Daniel Wallace uses, as quoted by Dr. Mounce, in his textbook on basic Biblical Greek ( pgs 28-29) to justify using the old debunked translation of “and the Word was God. The basic reasoning is circular arguing that the passage must be translated that way because Jesus is a person in the “Godhead” so he is God himself.

I am a student of the languages of the Bible and the languages of some of its earliest translations. The Coptic versions all render that passage the same way the Jehovah’s Witnesses version “the New World Translation” does as “the Word was a god,” so, the professors in the universities have started imposing the “qualitative theory” theory in their classes in an attempt to make the Coptic conform with trinitarianism. That is how powerful the theological establishment is.


13 posted on 11/18/2018 7:14:27 AM PST by Dupin
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To: Dupin; Pilgrim's Progress
AS IF THERE WERE ANY DOUBT—JESUS IS GOD!<<<

A "truth" so obvious it requires a 24/7/365 propaganda er apologetics machine to keep the folks in line with the settled doctrines.

This generation is that generation.

Jesus was up against a religious establishment owned and operated by those who reasoned amongst themselves instead of inquiring of the Lord. The Gospel accounts are filled with Jesus' encounters with the drive-by media of his day - experts always at the ready with their Gotcha! questions, misinterpretations of his words, and all manner of assorted treachery and subterfuge.

We can see that plainly today with the ongoing saga of President Donald Trump fighting against all the forces of hell. It's a living parable in real-time.

So when the MSM says in unison that the President is unfit, unstable, corrupt and all the rest, why it's the Gospel truth! /s They all have the same talking points and marching orders. President Trump refuses to play by the Establishment rules, and now the peasants are getting uppity, questioning the well-oiled propaganda machine. He's got to go lest the entire system come crashing down.

People can read the political weather but not the signs of the times in their own church atmosphere. The real Jesus is that incorrigible climate-denier who refuses to get with the program.

Jesus had a lot to say to and about the Pharisees and Sadducees, nothing much of anything good. They were blind and deaf, continually misunderstanding his speech and doubling down on their accusations. Everything Jesus said was being run through the filter of their dogma, so from their perspective, Jesus was a dangerous heretic who was violating the Torah every which way to Sunday. His attempts to correct their misunderstandings never took hold, because they had already made up their minds. No way to reason with folks like that.

The modern religious establishment says that Jesus is God, and quotes the wisdom of the Pharisees and Sadducees as proof, because if *they* thought he was claiming to be God, then there you go.

Because we all know that CNN is the most trusted name in news.

Everything Jesus said is run through the filter of trinity dogma, so from that perspective, Jesus is God along with hundreds of other "proof" texts and noone dare question. At least the religious experts of his day who misundersood his words, knew that a claim of deity was blasphemy. What they didn't do was turn it into a statement of faith. Jesus is the man who has been subjected to the greatest character assassination in all of human history, by the same folks who persecuted and murdered *Jews* being Jesus-killers. The further irony is that now the blame is generally placed on Rome.

Jesus is definitely the anti-establishment type. It's the Establishment Jesus that is the fake Jesus. Explains why nobody is going to recognize him, at least those who occupy their days sniffing for doctrinal error and defending fake news. There are many people in churches, though, who are simply doing what Jesus instructed: loving the Lord and loving their fellow man with all their hearts, in spite of the dogmatic types and the false teachers and hangers-on. Like Joseph or Moses spending all those years in Egypt, yet coming out uncorrupted.

If the Messiah believed in the trinity doctrine, he never recognize himself. Neither would anyone else. Well that's one way he could go about his work without anyone pestering him. He could even be sitting in the next pew, singing Gospel songs.

The theological establishment is going down. The truth sets people free. Jesus said, "Your sins are forgiven, so you can get up and walk now." (Oh boy, that wasn't an exact quote. What's the rap on that?)

Never a shortage of kindly teachers (wolves) preaching that no one is ever humble or contrite enough, because everyone is a hopeless sinner always. While proclaiming liberty, those teachers have quite a list of sins at the ready for an instant beatdown. Yup, the only thing to do is trust Jesus to mow your lawn and clean the bathrooms.

The trinity doctrine is like disability, or crack. If people go off of it, they'd have to get a job and do something useful for a change.

"Deny" the trinity, and all the established doctrines built on top of it come crashing down as well. And we can't have that.

Or a house with 50 layers of paint. Nobody wants paint-stripper Jesus, at least not the folks selling all the paint supplies, or who paint for a living.

All the aggressive marketing campaigns between major brands would grind to a halt, the entire business of religion would go belly up just like that. No more profit.

No wonder the one holding the key of David said he'd have a new name.

14 posted on 11/18/2018 8:40:44 AM PST by Ezekiel (All who mourn(ed!) the destruction of America merit the celebration of her rebirth.)
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To: Dupin
"And the Word was God (ο λογος — kai theos ēn ho logos). By exact and careful language John denied Sabellianism by not saying ο λογος — ho theos ēn ho logos That would mean that all of God was expressed in τεος — ho logos and the terms would be interchangeable, each having the article. The subject is made plain by the article (πνευμα ο τεος — ho logos) and the predicate without it (ο τεος αγαπη εστιν — theos) just as in John 4:24 ο Λογος σαρχ εγενετο — pneuma ho theos can only mean “God is spirit,” not “spirit is God.” So in 1 John 4:16 ho theos agapē estin can only mean “God is love,” not “love is God” as a so-called Christian scientist would confusedly say. For the article with the predicate see Robertson, Grammar, pp. 767f. So in John 1:14 ho Logos sarx egeneto “the Word became flesh,” not “the flesh became Word.” Luther argues that here John disposes of Arianism also because the Logos was eternally God, fellowship of Father and Son, what Origen called the Eternal Generation of the Son (each necessary to the other). Thus in the Trinity we see personal fellowship on an equality." - https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/rwp/john-1.html, also https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bnb/john-1.html
17 posted on 11/18/2018 9:37:41 AM PST by Mr Rogers (Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools)
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To: Dupin

The Copts aren’t Arians anymore than the Greeks or Romans are, so evidently they don’t agree with your reading either.


24 posted on 11/19/2018 5:47:47 PM PST by Campion ((marine dad))
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