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A Roman Catholic Scholar Looks at Causes of the Reformation
Beggars All ^ | 10/24/2011 | JAMES SWAN

Posted on 10/18/2019, 12:20:46 PM by Gamecock

Joseph Lortz was a German Roman Catholic theologian. He's best known for his work on Martin Luther and the Reformation. In his book The Reformation: A Problem for Today (Maryland: The Newman Press, 1964), he has a chapter entitled "The Causes of the Reformation." One particular "cause" caught my attention. He states,

"When Luther asserted that the pope in Rome was not the true successor of Saint Peter and that the Church could do without the Papacy, in his mind and in essence these were new doctrines, but the distinctive element in them was not new and thus they struck a sympathetic resonance in the minds of many. Long before the Reformation itself, the unity of the Christian Church in the West had been severely undermined" (p. 37).

This type of sentiment is far different than that usually expressed by Roman Catholics. Typically, Luther is the grand innovator that tore the church asunder. Lortz though does something many don't bother to do- he sees a flow to history. In his chapter preceding this statement, he lists a number of ways in which the West was more than ready to grant that the pope in Rome was not the true successor of Saint Peter and that the Church could do without the Papacy. Here's how Lortz explains this comment:

The significance of the break-up of medieval unity in the thirteenth century, but even more during the Avignon period, is evident in the most distinctive historical consequence of the Avignon Papacy: the Great Western Schism. The real meaning of this event may not be immediately apparent. It can be somewhat superficially described as a period when there were two popes, each with his own Curia, one residing in Rome, the other in Avignon. This situation in which both contenders claimed to be pope (at one time the number increased so that many spoke of the "cursed trinity") was in the main corrected by the efforts of the German Emperor Sigismund at the Council of Constance in 1414. These statements are true, but the account they give is sketchy and superficial; they tell us nothing of the real significance of the Schism.

The real significance of the Western Schism rests in the fact that for decades there was an almost universal uncertainty about where the true pope and the true Church were to be found. For several decades, both popes had excommunicated each other and his followers; thus all Christendom found itself under sentence of excommunication by at least one of the contenders. Both popes referred to their rival claimant as the Antichrist, and to the Masses celebrated by them as idolatry. It seemed impossible to do anything about this scandalous situation, despite sharp protests from all sides, and despite the radical impossibility of having two valid popes at the same time. Time and time again, the petty selfishness of the contenders blocked any solution.

The split caused by the Western Schism was far from being merely the concern of theologians; no area of public or private life remained untouched; even the economic sphere was affected, mainly because of disputes in regard to the possession of benefices. Provinces of the Church, religious orders, universities, even individual monasteries and parish houses were divided. For decades, all experienced this profound division in all sectors of daily life. Good people on both sides, even saints, were not only unable to bring about unity, but in their allegiance to one or the other of the contenders they themselves were in sharp opposition. We find, for example, St. Catherine of Siena on the Roman side and St. Vincent Ferrer on that of Avignon. Furthermore, the settlement of the Schism at the Council of Constance did not really solve the problem. The triumph of the Conciliar Theory at Constance, and even more at Basel, extended the life span of the Schism from 1378 to 1448, when it finally came to an end in the person of the Antipope Felix V. The confusion and uncertainty about the valid pope and the true Church is manifest in the amazing twists in the allegiance of Nicolaus of Cusa and Aeneas Silvio dei Piccolomini, later to become Pius II, both of whom had begun by defending the Conciliar Theory in its most radical form.

This was an experience shared by the entire West — one which would leave its imprint in Western consciousness for a long time to come. The memory of this experience was still fresh a century later. It is not too difficult to see the effects of the Western Schism in preparing the way for the doctrines of the Reformation. When Luther asserted that the pope of Rome was not the true successor of Saint Peter and that the Church could do without the Papacy, in his mind and in their essence these were new doctrines, but the distinctive element in them was not new and thus they struck a sympathetic resonance in the minds of many. Long before the Reformation itself, the unity of the Christian Church in the West had been severely undermined (pp. 35-37).


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1 posted on 10/18/2019, 12:20:46 PM by Gamecock
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To: Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; CynicalBear; daniel1212; Dutchboy88; ealgeone; ..

Ping!


2 posted on 10/18/2019, 12:22:00 PM by Gamecock (Time is short Eternity is long It is reasonable that this short life be lived in light of eternity)
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To: Gamecock

Interesting article. Thank you for posting.


3 posted on 10/18/2019, 12:28:47 PM by kosciusko51
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bump


4 posted on 10/18/2019, 12:30:09 PM by foreverfree
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To: kosciusko51
Are you in before anything again? 😁👍😆🤗
5 posted on 10/18/2019, 12:30:38 PM by Mark17 (Once saved, always saved. I do not care if some do not like that. It will NEVER be my problem)
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To: Mark17

Yes, but I am interested to see how this discussion goes. I’m sure it will be predictable.


6 posted on 10/18/2019, 12:37:24 PM by kosciusko51
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To: Gamecock

The argument could be made this goes back even further to the East-West Schism of 1054.


7 posted on 10/18/2019, 12:40:55 PM by ealgeone
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To: fproy2222

Bookmark


8 posted on 10/18/2019, 12:43:48 PM by fproy2222 ( Good Common sense depends on who you are in common with.)
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To: ealgeone

Agreed.


9 posted on 10/18/2019, 12:45:12 PM by kosciusko51
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To: kosciusko51
Yes, but I am interested to see how this discussion goes. I’m sure it will be predictable.

Better than even chance you are right. Praise God for St Martin Luther, flawed that he, and all of us are, that God used him in a mighty way.

10 posted on 10/18/2019, 1:33:19 PM by Mark17 (Once saved, always saved. I do not care if some do not like that. It will NEVER be my problem)
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To: Gamecock
Well, being a Lutheran, this not at all the way I have learned the reason for the Reformation. There isn’t one word here about the corruption in the Catholic Church nor one word about the selling of indulgences as a means to gain salvation. Luther knew he did not feel he could never do enough himself to be worthy to gain admittance heaven. He searched and searched the scriptures and found Christ had already done what needed to be done. It was a gift from God. All Luther had to do was believe.

How pitiful that too many make this simple concept complicated. “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God not of works, lest anyone should boast.””

11 posted on 10/18/2019, 1:46:52 PM by Wm F Buckley Republican
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To: kosciusko51; Mark17

Are there Roman Catholic scholars who are sympathetic to Martin Luther? This article quotes one who seems to be just that.


12 posted on 10/18/2019, 2:06:34 PM by nwrep
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To: Gamecock
"When Luther asserted that the pope in Rome was not the true successor of Saint Peter and that the Church could do without the Papacy, in his mind and in essence these were new doctrines, but the distinctive element in them was not new and thus they struck a sympathetic resonance in the minds of many

Whenever the Pope is as bad as the current one this is going to be the case. And we have actually had worse.


13 posted on 10/18/2019, 4:33:25 PM by Buckeye McFrog (Patrick Henry would have been an anti-vaxxer)
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To: nwrep
Are there Roman Catholic scholars who are sympathetic to Martin Luther?

Give Francis a few more years and we'll ALL Be sympathetic to him.


14 posted on 10/18/2019, 4:34:28 PM by Buckeye McFrog (Patrick Henry would have been an anti-vaxxer)
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To: Gamecock

That doesn’t look like a Catholic website from which a Catholic would post.


15 posted on 10/18/2019, 4:39:36 PM by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation; Gamecock

Do you doubt the veracity of the statements being made, or are you just attacking the messenger?


16 posted on 10/18/2019, 4:41:17 PM by kosciusko51
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To: kosciusko51

I just don’t think this “claimed” Catholic would assent to having his story posted on this website.


17 posted on 10/18/2019, 4:43:23 PM by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
The author clearly states that the text in question is from the book The Reformation: A Problem for Today (Maryland: The Newman Press, 1964), by Joseph Lortz, a German Roman Catholic theologian.

Whether or not Lortz assented to it is immaterial, and consider that Lortz has been dead since 1975, it would be impossible for him to assent. Do you doubt that Joseph Lortz wrote this?

18 posted on 10/18/2019, 4:48:28 PM by kosciusko51
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To: kosciusko51

What if the book were compiled in 1970-1974? It’s not impossible for a Catholic Scholar to agree to having his story published.


19 posted on 10/18/2019, 4:50:38 PM by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

You still have not answered my question: Do you doubt that he wrote what has been quoted? A simple yes or no will suffice.


20 posted on 10/18/2019, 4:59:15 PM by kosciusko51
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