Posted on 05/08/2020 4:37:58 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles
By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. (Hebrews 11:4-6)
The famous “Faith Chapter” in the book of Hebrews, begins with two Saints, Abel and Enoch as examples of faith which we are to imitate. Faith is the point, for faith is the only way to please God.
I once asked the LORD, ‘Why Faith? Why is that what you require?” I believe I received several answers in the form of scripture and impressions, from the LORD. God requires faith, because we simply cannot save ourselves. Only God can save our souls, no one can redeem themselves, therefore Faith is required, because faith glorifies God and not man.
Another reason for the requirement of faith that came to me, is that our problems began when we quit believing in the goodness of God. Adam and Eve were willing to entertain a false and degraded notion of God, that He was holding something back that would be good for the first couple. The Serpent bore false witness about the LORD, and they believed it.
The way back? It has to be faith. We must repent and believe again in the goodness of God.
The “hall of faith” begins with Abel and Enoch. One Saint who was murdered for his faith, and for bearing witness to God in a hostile world. There would be literally millions upon millions who would follow in his footsteps, being willing to let go of their life rather than deny the truth of God.
The other Saint, Enoch, was a man who lived in a kind of “end times scenario” living in the time leading up to the flood. It was a day of Apostasy, but Enoch walked with God, until God took Him home. He didn’t die , He was raptured. God took him home, to be with himself.
Faith was required of each of them.
I believe that we also live in an end-time. I have no doubt that Jesus is coming, and in our lifetime. What makes us unique is the re-emergence of the nation of Israel, in 1948, in fulfillment of the prophecies about the last of the last days. All of the prophets pre-supposed that there would be a national Israel, and a Jewish occupied city of Jerusalem, as well as a controversy over Judea, (The West bank) which would engulf the whole world.
The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel, saith the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him. Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. (Zechariah 12:1-3)
Which brings us back to our two Saints at the beginning of Hebrews 11. One died, He was martyred for his witness to God. The other one did not die. He was Raptured. Both of these Saints lived by Faith and Pleased God.
I believe that this speaks to us in our generation.
No doubt. many of us will end up dying. Perhaps some of us will be given an opportunity to be martyred. We are Saints and love God, but all things being equal, unless the LORD returns, we will die, one way or another.
(Of course, Christians don’t really die, they “go to sleep”) but the real point is that Faith is the only way to please God.
But according to the scriptures, there is a unique end-times event, coming, as I hope I have pointed out in this series, called the Rapture, or “Our gathering together unto Him”, “the Episynagogue” and Jesus coming to “take us where (He)…is, unto himself”. The LORD is coming to snatch us off the earth with a swift and irresistable power”.
To participate in such an event is a rare honor among the countless Millions of Saints who believed in Jesus before us.
But whether we die, or are martyred, o whether we are raptured, the real point is that we must live our lives by Faith,which is the only way to please God.
This is why I do not enter into the countless discussions as to the timing of the Rapture. “Will The Rapture be pre- ,mid , or post Tribulation”?
Honesty, the only things I am sure about the Rapture at all are that it is:
* For God’s Saints only, and the prospect of it is a comfort.
* A Mystery revealed in the New Testament era.
* It occurs before the actual “Wrath ” of God.
* It involves the “dead in Christ” as well as “We who are alive, until the coming of the LORD”.
As far as I know, all else can only be speculation. God doesn’t want us to know the exact timing otherwise it would be clearer. I am glad there is a Rapture, and my prayer has always been that I be involved in it, while alive. But I cannot say with certainty what the timing of it is, so I don’t.
What counts is Faith in Jesus. Not dead works, but a living, vital, infectious faith. Let us have a faith which still moves us to confess and forsake our sins, to Love and seek God. To forgive and love our brothers, and a faith which moves us to share with others what God has shown to us. Is your faith alive? Do you have oil in your lamp? Are you current with God?
We Overcome the World by our faith. “This is the victory that overcometh the World…our faith”. We overcome the Spirit of antiChrist also, by our faith. So also we overcome the sins that so easily beset us, and the Coldness and soul deadening effect of this world, by our Faith.
Of course we want out of here, we can increasingly see that there is nothing in this World for we who believe, but rejection and opposition.I want Jesus to come, and Long for the Rapture. I am either going up in it, or I am gong to die, but one way or another we are leaving.
Either way, the point is Faith. So I will leave the timing of the Rapture to God, and just strive to be counted worthy to attain it, whether ded or alive.
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. (Luke 21:35)
The day of the Lord is the 2nd coming of Christ at Armageddon when He returns and sets up His Millennial Reign. That’s what verses 1,2 3 talk about.
Verse 4 begins with “BUT”. “But he brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Verse 5: “YE (the saved believers he is writing to) ARE ALL the children of LIGHT, and the children of the day: WE are not of the night, nor of darkness.”
Also Eph. 5:8. “For YE were sometimes darkness, BUT NOW are ye light IN THE LORD; walk as children of the LIGHT”.
We are not going through the tribulation because that is reserved for the CHILDREN OF DARKNESS (the lost) and we are CHILDREN OF THE LIGHT(saved).
Of course there will be people saved by the 144,000 during the tribulation, but they are in the tribulation BECAUSE they were children of the dark when Christ came for the Church the Body of Christ, to keep us from the WRATH TO COME.
Another important reason is that God wants us to totally trust in and rely upon Him not only for our eternal salvation but for every aspect of our lives. Faith is "believing without seeing". Jesus said:
And the Apostle Peter continues:
Paul wrote of Christ's coming, "Behold, I show you a mystery: we shall not all sleep [die], but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed" (1 Corinthians 15:51,52).
Christ said the dead shall be raised at His coming!
When? At His return; at His coming!
The resurrection does not occur until the moment of Christ's VISIBLE, TUMULTUOUS, POWERFUL, EARTH-SHAKING RETURN!
The Resurrection and
the "Catching Up" of the Saints
Now, notice: "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them which sleep [are dead] in Jesus will God bring with Him.
"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent [precede] them which are asleep [are dead].
"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, and with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
"THEN [and not one second before!] we which are alive [Paul wrote to the church, the saints] and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thessalonians 4:14-18).
Notice that the living saints are not to precede the dead in Christ by so much as a second!
WHEN, then, is the resurrection?
Notice! "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the Firstfruits of them that slept.
"For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
"But every man in his own order: Christ the Firstfruits, afterward they that are Christ's at His coming [parousia]" (1 Corinthians 15:20-23).
Now, notice another graphic, earth-shaking description of Christ's Second Coming:
"And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and true, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war.
"His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns; and He had a name written, that no man knew, but He Himself.
"And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The Word of God.
"And the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
"And out of His mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
"And He hath on His vesture and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
"And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
"That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
"And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him that sat on the horse, and against His army.
"And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
"And the remnant were slain with the sword of Him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of His mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh" (Revelation 19:11-21).
Anyone who believes for one instant there is anything "secretive" about this stupendous series of events is incapable of understanding plain English.
Notice further information about Christ's Second Coming:
"Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
"For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
"Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.
"And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
"And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
"And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
"But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
"And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
"And the Lord shall be King over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and His name" (Zechariah 14:1-9).
This great earthquake is also mentioned in Revelation 16:17-19, in connection with Christ's coming to smash the power of the ten kings comprising the Beast power (Revelation 17:12-14).
Clearly, the prophecy includes the battle of Armageddon (Daniel 11:40-45; Revelation 16:14-16), and the Second Coming of Christ to destroy these arms gathered against Jerusalem!
The time element is inescapable. "His feet shall stand IN THAT DAY UPON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES" is as plain as the nose on your face!
Christ is not coming in "two phases," first, "for" His saints prior to the Tribulation and Day of the Lord, and then, "with" His saints afterwards!
Clearly, the living saints will not precede those who have died down through the ages; those martyred in the first century, including Peter, James, and Paul! Instead, they are to be either resurrected, or changed, in a moment, in the "twinkling of an eye" AT THE LAST TRUMP!
The last trump is the last of the seven trumpet plagues, at the moment of the great earthquake, and the Second Coming of Christ!
What Difference Does it All Make?
Why should someone who believes in the "rapture" get ANGRY when shown, from the Bible, that the so-called "secret rapture" is a myth?
If Christ is going to redeem the saved; if Christ is coming to catch up His people, including the dead in Christ, and descend with them to the mount of Olives in the same day, then His true followers will be SAVED, will they not?
They will be born of God by a resurrection, or an instantaneous change, will they not? (1 Corinthians 15:50-52).
They will then come down from the clouds, perhaps anywhere from 10 to 40,000 feet above the earth, in this earth's atmosphere, and will be with Christ as He begins to rule this earth with a rod of iron.
What is so wrong with these wondrous promises of your Bible that "pretribulationists" and "secret rapturists" seem to violently object?
It is simply this: Somehow, they cannot bring themselves to believe the "saved" could suffer any harm! For some reason, an insidious false assumption has crept into the minds of millions of people, an assumption which says God would not think of allowing His saints to come to any physical harm! No, any such terrible event is reserved only for the wicked, so they think! What they do not realize is that such a false assumption makes them out to be better than Christ!
Did not Christ say, "If they have persecuted me, they will persecute you also"? Did He not say, "In this world ye shall tribulation"? Did He not say, "The time will come when they that killeth you will think they do God a service"?
Another equation in this false assumption is that martyrdom is reserved for the spiritually weak!
Those who cling to the false notion of "church eras" point out how God will allegedly throw those in the so-called "Laodicean attitude" of lukewarmness into the Great Tribulation, while spiriting away into a desert wilderness the "good" people in the "Philadelphian era."
According to this scenario, those closest to God; those on fire with zeal; those with the most faith, the most works, the most spiritual character, will be PROTECTED from the Tribulation, miraculously "taken to a place of safety."
But those who are less faithful, not so close to God; those without zeal; those who are lukewarm, who have weak spiritual character, will be chosen as God's martyrs!
As they suffer, they will realize how terribly weak, and lukewarm they have been, as the theory goes, and, under torture and eventual death, they will repent!
But WHO did God choose as His martyrs?
Look at the list: Jesus Christ, Peter, James, Paul, Stephen, Antipas, dozens of others in the first century. Read the eleventh chapter of Hebrews, how God's greatest prophets were oftentimes martyred for their faith.
John saw a vision of the witness of two prophets, two human beings who will personally testify against the Beast and the False Prophet! Their Prophecy is to take place during the Tribulation!
"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
"These are the two olive trees [mentioned in symbol in Zechariah 4:3], and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
"And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
"These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
"And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit [the abyss—a spiritual metaphor] shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
"And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
"And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
"And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts to one another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwell on the earth.
"And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
"And they heard a great voice out from heaven saying unto them, ‘Come up hither,’ And they ascended to heaven [this earth's atmosphere, where vapors form clouds—not the "third heaven" of God's throne] in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
"And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted: and gave glory to the God of heaven" (Revelation 11:2-13).
These two men are in Jerusalem all during the Tribulation and the Day Of the Lord. Their three and one-half year's testimony coincides exactly with the "time of Jacob's trouble," of three and one-half years; with the "times of the Gentiles" of three and one-half years; with the "treading down of Jerusalem" of three and one-half years!
God gives them power far above that of Moses or Elijah. The plagues they call down upon sinning mankind, upon the Beast and False Prophet, are global in nature, not national, or local, as in the former cases.
These two prophets, the "two witnesses" of the future, are human beings, converted, Spirit-led SAINTS! They are Christ's servants, conducting the last-minute, FINAL phase of God's work on this earth of PERSONALLY witnessing to the Beast and False Prophet in the name of Christ!
What happens to them?
They are martyred!
When the Beast is finally able to "make war" against them, overcome them, and kill them, the Bible does not tell us specifically how they die. You can be sure it will not be pleasant! Yet, after lying dead in the street for three and one-half days, they are obviously resurrected, and will be given eternal life! Are these two great prophets "Laodicean"?
Are they "left behind" when the saints are "raptured," or the so-called "Philadelphia era" goes to a "place of safety"?
Do they suffer a horrible death because they are spiritually inferior?
No, God does not choose the spiritually WEAK, the lukewarm, to be His martyrs!
Instead, He chooses those who are so close to God that they literally count all things in this life "as dung" (Philippians 3:8) in comparison with the Kingdom of God, and eternal life!
"Rapturists," like "survivalists" and "escapists," have their minds on the preservation of this physical life!
Jesus Christ tells them that those who seek to save their lives in this world, who have their minds on physical things, are likely to lose out on salvation!
No, God is NOT going to "rapture" away His saints secretly. The lady with the bumper sticker will not suddenly disappear through her roof, after all!
Let us not trust in false hopes, but in Jesus Christ of Nazareth, and God the Father, Who loves us, and Who promises eternal life with Him in His Kingdom to all those who "endure unto the end," whether that means the end of our own physical lives or the end of the Tribulation and the Day of the Lord!
I think, caww, you have some misconceptions:
1. We who believe there is only one second coming - not two - are indeed “looking for Jesus’ return to meet him in the air.” We differ only in that this event happens at the end of the tribulation, like Jesus said in Matt. 24:29-31. Not seven years before, at an additional second coming Jesus said nothing about.
2. You frame this issue as if post-trib “folks” would rather “suffer through the tribulation” as you put it, than leave outta here in a pretrib rapture.
It has nothing to do with what any of us want, it has everything to do with what the Bible actually says. There simply is no such thing as two second comings in the Bible.
Preterist foolery. Put John 14 and 1 Thess 4:13-18 together ... and run along to the next gaggle you can deceive.
On your knees, open Bible, in a spirit of prayer. Is there any other way?
................................................
Odd you should say that because most Fundys I’ve known consider kneeling to be a Catholic practice and are therefore opposed to it!
Bkmk
This is what you said:
“The Day of The Lord is something to fear for you unbelievers”
It looked like you had gone off your rocker calling someone who didn’t believe in your two second comings an unbeliever in Christ.
I’m the one that was offended, now you are claiming to be so. At any rate, I’m glad we got this straightened out.
Not that we’re square on this, no more of this calling somebody each other a liar. If you call me that again, I think we’ll have to bring the moderator in on this.
The return of Christ has been debated for ages.....so it should be understand there are differences of opinion on this matter. I wrote of my observation of those debates.
As for what the scriptures reveal I’m settled in my belief based on the biblical scripture entire...and happily looking forward to the next prophetic event when we meet Jesus in the air, just as he said. Frankly I have no desire to ‘prepare’ for the tribuation nor has the Lord indicated I should.
Hello Boatbums...:)
If what some believe, that we will be going through the Tribulation, then I would have to assume they’re all ‘preppers’ as well and have prepared shelters to hide out and large storages of food and medicines to secure their families.
Ok, but, assuming you are not raptured outta here, what is it going to take for you to admit you were wrong? When they are requiring everybody to take the mark?
I would hope that you would not be so adamant that you would reason “this can’t be the mark of the beast because the pretrib rapture was supposed to happen first, and it hasn’t happened yet,” and take it.
Issues like this are no small point, see Rev. 14:9-11.
How do you figure that??? If anything it SPURS believers on to live holy and God-pleasing lives as they see the day approaching - whether or not it happens in their own lifetime. God's word tells us:
So I ask you, how are YOU encouraging other believers to live godly in Christ Jesus? By smugly mocking and disparaging those who DO know what the word says and who joyfully anticipate the coming of the Lord which IS going to happen whether you believe it will or not? I don't know if the Rapture will happen in my lifetime, but I do know that I want to live every day as if it was imminent. Remember that bumper sticker:
Perhaps you might want to do some of your own study of the topic rather than writing it off as "just another of the countless heresies foisted on the gullible by fundamentalist no-nothings" because of your own prejudice and gullibility.
Hi! I wonder the same thing. Although this latest virus “shut down” might be a warm up of what is to come, it will be nothing compared to the pouring out of the wrath of God upon the ungodly world system. Persecution, martyrdom, trials and times of testing have been the experiences of Christians from the very start but it came from the world against them - it was aimed at God. The Tribulation will be from Almighty God aimed at the world and it seems highly unlikely He would be including the Body of Christ, His bride in the bunch getting hammered. That’s not to say that those people who turn to Christ during this time won’t be caught up in some of the hell being rained down. We know that there will also be martyrdom for Christ that goes on then but it is coming from the devil raging against God because he knows his time is short.
Kneeling, sitting, standing, running, walking - One can pray. Kneeling is only important in that it conveys humility and reverence.
You fabricated a falsehood, purposely mischara terized my post, there now does that make you feel better?
.....”Persecution, martyrdom, trials and times of testing have been the experiences of Christians from the very start but it came from the world against them - it was aimed at God. ....The Tribulation will be from Almighty God - aimed at the world, and it seems highly unlikely He would be including the Body of Christ, His bride in the bunch getting hammered.”.....
Those distinctions have much weight....and it appears likely those terrible events will be in part what turn people to God for their salvation at that time....so what purpose would it serve for people who are Christians now to even face or endure that time? The Lord has made it quite clear it’s Christian Jews and his two witnesses who will be doing the work then...and their gatherings together will be forced undergound.
Your assertions encourage watching for antiChrist, not the Great Departure of the Body of Christ.
Barley can be freed from the husks by just waving the sheafs in the air, but wheat is a tougher act which requires crushing the grain from the husks. The Barley harvest came before the wheat harvest.
It appears to this old man that after many run-ins with preterists and post trib folks, they do not believe 1 John 3:9, that it is GOD abiding in the spirit of the born again, and if His Life is in you that part of you is not sinning and cannot sin for His Life abides therein. There is zero reason to drag such a spirit through the crushing and every reason to believe He is coming for THAT to which He will give a new body and behavior mechanism as He takes HIS out from the wrath to come.
Folks read the Revelation and see a white horse traveler coming with a bow in his hand with no arrows and don't know what to make of this arrival of the first horse when perhaps billions will die in his arrival. That many deaths accompanying his arrival sounds like the beginning of tribulation to me. Deny the pre-trib Rapturing away of the Body of Christ results in these waiting for the revealing of the antichrist not waiting for the coming to be gathered up and taken to the Father's House where the Bema Seat of Christ will happen while tribulation is growing worse upon the Earth.
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