Posted on 06/19/2021 12:40:25 PM PDT by Cronos
Canaanites were and are also Semites and also spoke various Semitic languages related to Hebrew
Ashkenazi Jews may have less than 1% descent from Khazars. Remember that the khazer elites converted to Judaism. They were never large in number
Objective facts are a fussy thing sometimes. I support the many Christians within the borders of Iran. Many fighting the hard fight to spread Christianity. Not the government of Iran. But now we are speaking heresy and blaspheme because we are supposed to ignore reality and consider all of them evil and to be destroyed.
Thank you for the sensible and rational reply.
The kingdom of Israel was founded around 1050 BC hence the 1000 year kingdom of david.
The first attestation of Israel is 1300 BC,
No.
The Kingdom of Israel was founded around 1350 BC with King Saul. Maybe a little earlier but no later.
The first attestation of Israel is 1300 BC,
Maybe. Remember that what people call themselves is not what others may call them.
Saul’s reign according to the Bible and the Jewish traditionally placed in the late 11th century BC ie 1070 BC. Not earlier.
No one gives the date of 1350 for Saul’s reign. Furnish where you got that date, please
So 1350 BC or a bit earlier fits.
Saul is not mentioned in the amarna letters. Mentioned is Labayu, who was active over the whole length of Samaria and slightly beyond, as he gave land to Habiru in the vicinity of Šakmu (Shechem) and he and his sons threatened such powerful towns as Jerusalem and Gazru (Gezer) to the south, and Megiddo to the north.
Labayas letter to the pharaoh is proof that he wasn’t Saul
To the king, my lord and my Sun: Thus Lab’ayu, your servant and the dirt on which you tread. I fall at the feet of the king, my lord and my Sun, 7 times and 7 times. I have obeyed the orders that the king wrote to me. Who am I that the king should lose his land on account of me? The fact is that I am a loyal servant of the king! I am not a rebel and I am not delinquent in duty. I have not held back my payments of tribute; I have not held back anything requested by my commissioner. He denounces me unjustly, but the king, my Lord, does not examine my (alleged) act of rebellion. Moreover, my act of rebellion is this: when I entered Gazru-(Gezer), I kept on saying, “Everything of mine the king takes, but where is what belongs to Milkilu? “ I know the actions of Milkilu against me! Moreover, the king wrote for my son. I did not know that my son was consorting with the ‘Apiru. I hereby hand him over to Addaya-(commissioner). Moreover, how, if the king wrote for my wife, how could I hold her back? How, if the king wrote to me, “Put a bronze dagger into your heart and die”, how could I not execute the order of the king?
Other Canaanite rulers, such as Abdi-Heba of Jerusalem, complained of Labaya’s depredations (e.g. EA 289)[2] but note that in later years, Abdi-Heba would himself be referred to as “another Labaya” in EA 280.[3] Labaya was accused of capturing cities that were under Egyptian protection. Biridiya, the king of Megiddo, accused him of besieging his city:
Say to the king-(pharaoh), my lord and my Sun: Message of Biridiya, the loyal servant of the king, I fall at the feet of the king, my lord and my Sun, 7 times and 7 times. May the king, my lord, know that since the return (to Egypt) of the [Egyptian]-archers, Lab’ayu has waged war against me. We are thus unable to do the plucking: Ka-Zi-ra (harvesting), and we are unable to get out of the city gate, because of Lab’ayu. When he learned that archers were not coming out, he immediately determined to take Magidda. May the king save his city lest Lab’ayu seize it. Look, the city is consumed by pestilence, by.... ...So may the king give a garrison of 100 men to guard his city lest Lab’ayu seize it. Look, Lab’ayu has no other purpose. He seeks simply the seizure of Maggida.
But the biggest bit of evidence that Saul, David and Akhenaten were contemporaries is Great Hymn to the Aten and Psalm 104.
The 1050 date means that David lifted the Psalm from an obscure Egyptian Pharaoh who's life and works had been wiped from official records 300 years before or it was done by someone 800 years later and ascribed to David.
Problem is, that theory makes no sense.
It was not like Akhenaten's reforms survived his death for very long. So the Great Hymn to the Aten would not have been well known at all, certainly not enough to have been used almost unchanged 300 years later in another country. We will not even go into the 800 year date as it is silly.
But if they (Saul, David and Akhenaten) were contemporaries then it fits beautifully. David wrote it and Akhenaten borrowed it or vise versa.
But that’s not Saul — that’s Abdi-Heba of Jerusalem.
Abdi-Heba (Abdi-Kheba, Abdi-Hepat, or Abdi-Hebat) was a local chieftain of Jerusalem during the Amarna period (mid-1330s BC). Abdi-Heba’s name can be translated as “servant of Hebat”, a Hurrian goddess. Whether Abdi-Heba was himself of Hurrian descent is unknown, as is the relationship between the general populace of pre-Israelite Jerusalem (called Jebusites in the Bible) and the Hurrians. Egyptian documents have him deny he was a mayor (ḫazānu) and assert he is a soldier (we’w), the implication being he was the son of a local chief sent to Egypt to receive military training there
According to the Bible, the Israelite history of the city began in c. 1000 BCE, with King David’s sack of Jerusalem, following which Jerusalem became the City of David and capital of the United Kingdom of Israel.
And the text of Labaya’s letter is definitely not what an Israelite would write to the Egyptian pharaoh
Labaya is not Abdi-Heba, you are right there.
Regarding the Great Hymn to the Aten — that’s a good point, however I really don’t see any similarity to Psalmn 104 except in style - and that’s a fairly common Middle-EAstern bronze age style - look at the Lamentations of the Peasant vs Job.
I don’t think David lifted anything — the style as I point out, was common.
And Akhenaten was NOT obscure - he had a massive impact on Egypt and the near east. His son Tutankaten i.e. Tutankhamun was obscure but not his daddy. Akhenaten’s changes - I’m not going to call them “reforms” as they weren’t re-forming anything but changing them utterly - his changes were earth shattering and changed the New Kingdom religious landscape
Labaya wasn’t/isn’t Saul either - read the text of the letter by Labaya. That’s doesn’t fit Saul or Israel’s profile at the time as per the Biblical books
what a completely false premise. . .
It makes sense that there would be some inclusion of Canaanite DNA, because of how many times Israel was unfaithful and became involved in surrounding nations to join them.
The thing is that it is not “some”.
The two populations are essentially sister populations.
The languages were sister languages
“Most Iranians don’t want war with Israel and don’t see any relevance of Israel to their situation.”
If you know this from first hand knowledge of Iranians living in Iran, highly suggest you pass them the message that they should continue sabotaging the Iranian nuke facilities, and promptly move on to crushing the IRG and the mullahcracy, before those scumbags try to launch on Israel and wind up getting Tehran turned into a glass parking lot for their efforts.
They have been trying, but the mullahs are crushing them. It’s like criticizing the USA for Biden and the Democrats
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