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To: Tell It Right

That’s an interesting take.
Can you elaborate on it?

What about a “Revived Ottoman Empire”?

Turkey is certainly is a very powerful spot right now (economy aside).


54 posted on 10/20/2022 1:46:34 PM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal (Jesus + Something = Nothing ; Jesus + Nothing = Everything )
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To: Roman_War_Criminal
For starters, I realized that some of the prophecies of world conquerors that we say have already been fulfilled, didn't mean that the conqueror/empire took over the entire global world. They took over that region. Therefore, it's possible that some eschatological prophecies are the same. Maybe the tribulation isn't going to be over the entire planet, but the middle east region. Maybe the antichrist's rule over the "world" is for that region. Maybe the various plagues and events from the seals and trumpets is for that region. In that light, Islam in many ways fulfills the prophecies.

Already in most Muslim countries you can't buy or sell unless you're a Muslim. It could be that the mark of the beast on the forehead and wrist aren't literal marks, but symbolic of your creed. Think of the commandment God gave Moses to put the teachings on their foreheads and wrists. It could be that Revelation's descriptions of the mark of the beast and mark of Christ are describing which creed you adhere to or identify as. It's been that way for centuries in most Muslim countries, including during the years the Ottoman Empire controlled Jerusalem.

It's possible that the events of the seals, trumpet blasts, and bowls don't happen in a brief period, like all within a few years or in one century. We don't necessarily have to have either a preterist or futurist perspective on eschatology. It could be both. It could be that some of the events in Revelation happened within 6 or 7 centuries after the revelation was given to John, and some happened centuries after that, and some centuries after that, etc. With the latter ones happening lately.

Revelation 12 could be about the Jews coming back to Israel in 1948 (verse 14's "time times and half-a-time" is often seen as 3.5 years or 1260 days, often thought to mean 1260 years). It could mean that the dragon being enraged in verse 17 and waging war against the rest of her children, those who obey God, are the Muslim nations being mad at the west, who at the time of Israel's restoration were very much Christian nations.

If that's the case, then maybe Revelation 11 before that, the text about the two witnesses, are about Christianity and Judaism being the two witnesses. It could be that them being in mourning for 1,260 years is about neither Christianity nor Judaism flourishing for a while after the Ottoman Empire became a thing and conquered not only the middle east and north Africa, but much of Europe as well. Revelation 11:4's description of the witnesses as two olive trees and two lampstands might be referring to them being the ones with God's Spirit and truth. They're the ones serving the real God. Verse 6's description of no rain could be the desolation from Daniel 12 -- and we know from history that so much of what the Ottoman Empire took over became desolate. Part of that was their habit of letting their cattle eat up all of the grass, unlike other people controlling the grass cattle eat by rotating the pastures. Part of that was from a horrible climate change that we today call the Little Ice Age that spanned from AD 1300 to the 1800's. In that period crops had low yield, rain patterns were harder to predict and had years long droughts followed by heavy damaging gully washers, and deaths by plague increase. The Little Ice Age cooling period was the worst in the past 7 or 8 thousand years. Something that hasn't been the case since the west (Christians at the time) reconquered Jerusalem in World War I (and the Modern Warm Period beginning in the 1800's). By the way, for the past century you've been able to buy or sell in Jerusalem even if you have the mark of Christ (are a Christian). The "two witnesses" of Christianity and Judaism who control Israel today allow it.

At least, these are some of my thoughts.

56 posted on 10/21/2022 4:44:14 AM PDT by Tell It Right (1st Thessalonians 5:21 -- Put everything to the test, hold fast to that which is true.)
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