The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

[IMRight]

They both sound good to me. Was there a jab implied there?

[malakhi]

And Moses.. What happened to Moses? Did Moses Die? Careful now. What do the scriptures say?

Let's take a peek:

So Moses the servant of HaShem died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of HaShem.
And he was buried in the valley in the land of Moab over against Beth-peor; and no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.
And Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated. (Deuteronomy 33:5-7)

Hmm, I'm not sure where you mean to go with this. Care to elaborate?

[malakhi]

But that brings up another question: If Elijah and Enoch got to go to heaven, how come Abraham, Moses, David and other old testament heroes are never mentioned as going there?

Abraham breathed his last and died in a good old age, an old man and full of years, and was gathered to his people. (Genesis 25:8)

What do you make of this?!

[malakhi]

The Wisconsin Synod is often referred to as more conservative. The two were in full communion for a number of years, but the Missouri Synod apparently committed some act of apostasy for which it cannot now be forgiven so the two bodies no longer have much to do with one another.

Interesting, thanks!

[dadwags]

#171
Hey, Mack, Happy Easter !
Does your view of religious icons being idols also include those statues of Abe Lincoln in his temple (oops) memorial .? Or other statues of political leaders in most cities in this country ?

[malakhi]

They both sound good to me. Was there a jab implied there?

Nope, just giving some examples of Jesus's teachings that I have no problem with! ;o)

[DouglasKC]

He (Jesus) tells us that nobody but him has ever seen God. The logical conclusion is that he's telling the truth.
So she called the name of the LORD who spoke to her, "Thou art a God of seeing"; for she said, "Have I really seen God and remained alive after seeing him?" (Genesis 16:13)

You won't believe it, but Christ was the "Lord" of the old testament that had dealings with Moses. That's why Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I AM"...

So Jesus is right. People have seen him throughout history, carnate or not, but nobody has ever seen God but him.

[IMRight]

Mack sent in his "opus" this morning. Looks like he won't be replying to you any time soon. :(

But he didn't say anything about Becky/Sybil going anywhere. :)

[OLD REGGIE]

I don’t have to read hearts to know what the Church teaches. I also give people credit for understanding and following the teaching, something you will not do. You think there are large numbers of Catholics who do not understand the teaching and therefore worship Mary. Either that or you think we are lying.

Nobody thinks you are lying when you speak of what the RCC teaches. You are being either incredibally hypocritical, naive, or both when you deny that millions of Catholics worship Mary. Why do you continue to insist that this is not so because the Church teaches differently?

Both you and SD claim to miss the point I was making when I questioned the birth rate amongst Catholics in the Western World.

These Catholics know very well what the RCC teaches concerning birth control. Their artificially low birth rate is due to one thing; ARTIFICIAL BIRTH CONTROL! You can talk till the cows come home about what the Church Teaches, but if the majority, or great numbers, do differently, the teaching is worth ink and paper. If the RCC counted as Catholics, only those who are faithful to the official teaching the RCC would have a very small membership.

[IMRight]

So Jesus is right. People have seen him throughout history, carnate or not, but nobody has ever seen God but him.

Are you differentiating between "Jesus" and "God" here?

[DouglasKC]

But that brings up another question: If Elijah and Enoch got to go to heaven, how come Abraham, Moses, David and other old testament heroes are never mentioned as going there?
Abraham breathed his last and died in a good old age, an old man and full of years, and was gathered to his people. (Genesis 25:8)What do you make of this?!

It simply means that he died and his body was given to his people for burial, as the next verse indicates:

Gen 25:9 And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which is before Mamre,

[DouglasKC]

So Jesus is right. People have seen him throughout history, carnate or not, but nobody has ever seen God but him.
Are you differentiating between "Jesus" and "God" here?

No, I'm agreeing with Jesus.

[IMRight]

No, I'm agreeing with Jesus.

Please elaborate. You seem to be saying that she was seeing Jesus but not seeing God.

[OLD REGGIE]

That's interesting. On what do they base that view? Some here think that the RCs didn't invent the concept until well after you guys broke off.

Which ones think that? I have'nt seen that idea posted here. Most that I am aware of believe the concept grew a few hundred years after the deaths of the apostles. IOW It wasn't the belief in the earliest Church or among the earliest Church Fathers.

[malakhi]

You won't believe it, but Christ was the "Lord" of the old testament that had dealings with Moses.

I know you believe it. And you are right; I don't.

[DouglasKC]

No, I'm agreeing with Jesus. Please elaborate. You seem to be saying that she was seeing Jesus but not seeing God.

Jesus said:

Joh 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the Only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Jesus said:

Joh 6:46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God, He has seen the Father.

We know that Jesus IS God, so what Jesus is telling us that nobody has ever seen God the Father. They have only seen God the son, Him, Jesus. Since nobody has seen God the father, then the people in the old testament must have been in contact with God, the son, before he became Christ. And since nobody has seen God, the father and since God the father resides in heaven, then we can be sure that one of two things apply:

1. Nobody is in heaven.

2. People are in heaven but God the father has not shown himself to them.

[OLD REGGIE]

(Or could it be that the Bible is not in the same class as other books written by man alone?)

The Bible is a book, consisting of smaller books. To most Christians, the most important book ever written.

Keep up the good work Mr. Doctor.

[malakhi]

But he didn't say anything about Becky/Sybil going anywhere. :)

Just checked weather.com, and it is presently mostly sunny and 77F in Tulsa. I'm guessing that Mack is working today.

[IMRight]

Which ones think that? I have'nt seen that idea posted here. Most that I am aware of believe the concept grew a few hundred years after the deaths of the apostles. IOW It wasn't the belief in the earliest Church or among the earliest Church Fathers.

Not every comment about "some NCs" has to be taken as refering to you, Reg. (Is this a symptom of "paranoia"?)

More than one person here has tied the Papal ex-cathedra statement about Mary's perpetual virginity as marking the point where RCs decided that Mary was "ever virgin". I think that Mack's list of "non-biblical" RC doctrines included Mary being made "ever-virgin" in the 1700's.

As for the beliefs of the early church... you're just mistaken (you sure I can't say "URWrong"? What if I pay royalties?). Maybe Jesus had a tough day, but I doubt he forgot about his other siblings when he turned Mary over to John. Or does He not count as an "early church father"?

[IMRight]

We know that Jesus IS God, so what Jesus is telling us that nobody has ever seen God the Father. They have only seen God the son, Him, Jesus. Since nobody has seen God the father, then the people in the old testament must have been in contact with God, the son, before he became Christ. And since nobody has seen God, the father and since God the father resides in heaven, then we can be sure that one of two things apply:

1. Nobody is in heaven.

2. People are in heaven but God the father has not shown himself to them.

Much clearer. Thank you.

I'll take what's behind "door #2" if those are the only choices, thanks.